Why do Americans hate Lisa Simpson

Men Are the Expendable Gender even in comedic karma payoff, most of the time.

I find it interesting that criticism of Lisa for supposedly being a Jerkass is never met with criticisms of over-sensitivity, the way criticisms of Jerkass characters and mean-spirited humor on other shows are. I really wonder why that is, because honestly, it seems a tad hypocritical.

For me Lisa was always outspoken and political, it just so happens that as the show has gotten increasingly worse in quality, her annoying characteristics have been amped Up To Eleven.

I mean Flanders as a Bible thumper was funny to me back in the day but I find myself rolling my eyes whenever they feel the need to pit him against Lisa (more often than not acting as an Author Avatar) for ANOTHER sermon on how stupid religion is and how we should all try to be more intellectual like Lisa.

edited 3rd Apr '14 10:31:03 AM by comicwriter

Also I really did love the moments where someone would at least point out how annoying her Soapbox Sadie moments were getting. Wasn't there one where she tries to recruit Marge for a cause and Marge says something about how Lisa ALWAYS has some new cause to complain about?

First: I'm not American Second: It's not that I hate Lisa, but her fandom. She has a lot of good ideas, and I share her idealism, but she's still an inmature bratty girl. As such, instead of sharing ideas democratically she has to force them on average people. In a way, she's a bit of a supremacist who needs to improve as a person. But she's only eight years old, she'll mature for sure and have a bright future... But her fans think she's Little Miss Perfect already, and that's not the case. She's as flawed as any character of the show, a think that makes her as multidimensional as the rest of Springfield citizens (at least until Season 9). But again, fans love her to be a flat character, "the cute voice of reason". That's why I joined Lisa's haters, even sharing many of her ideas: I'm a leftist (in a classical way: some enviromentalists and all ultra-vegans annoy me), I love reading, I love culture and I hate bigotry... But some times Lisa acts like an American leftist bigot. In Europe we're not as hipsters as her.

Brian Griffin is a similar type of character, but he's a brave mature adult talking dog, and he tends to acknowledge his worst traits (he's prone to addictions and wants to shag Lois - but loves and respects her too much for his sake).

(Why do I get the feeling this thread will be locked..?)

She's very preachy and annoying. Especially now. I wish she acted like an 8 year old once and while.. that would be refreshing

Brian was that ironically, before the show decided to pander to the fan base and make him a sleazy Straw Hypocrite with a Never My Fault complex.

edited 23rd Aug '14 12:39:47 PM by Psi001

Brian is the one of the main reasons why I don't watch the show. His preachiness and hypocrisy is too painful.

And when that happened,the other characters ganged up on him to call him out.

As for Lisa around Seasons 9-12,usually her traits were played for laughs,the one remotely serious episode which pitted her against Flanders ended on a very "above it all" note.

It was after Mike Scully left and Al Jean returned that Lisa's tendencies started to be used seriously and without being called out.

Excepting the first episode where she converted to Buddhism, which had Richard Gere give her a lesson in religious tolerance.

Calling out is important, but the problem was that Brian was such a repugnant character by that time that alone couldn't really redeem him (eg. Brian Writes A Bestseller and Be Careful What You Fish For convey him with next to zero redeeming qualities).

I do agree that sometimes Lisa's traits come out a bit too superficial (in fact this is very common with female characters comedy wise, it is usually the male lead that always gets the Idiot Balls and Aesops and needs to improve their behaviour, no matter if everyone around them is as much of a jerk), but at least she hasn't quite crossed the line as much as Brian, she at the very least is usually earnest about her beliefs, just kinda pushy and arrogant about them. One episode established Brian only takes a side so he can antagonise and look like flavour of the month.

Truth be told, this was true with Lisa even in the beginning. Notice while both of them were brats, Homer usually only ever punished Bart. There's a thing about female comeuppances not being considered funny.

edited 23rd Aug '14 12:56:42 PM by Psi001

Brian's preachy and he's always right, people hate him. Brian's preachy and he gets called out on it, people hate him.

They just cannot win.

I think it's easier to say that Family Guy don't make sympathetic characters. The cast don't just have flawed episodes, they cross the Moral Event Horizon for laughs. Usually when they make a character apologise for their actions it's made to be comedically disproportionate to all the horrific things they've done.

edited 23rd Aug '14 12:55:46 PM by Psi001

Off Topic: Why don't females ever get punishment for their actions in shows? If their behavior is just as bad, or worse, than the male characters, then they should get comeuppance.

On Topic:

Well, there's the fact that Lisa's usually portrayed as always being in the right. Plus, there's the fact that she whines about not having any friends (eg: I have few rl friends, and I don't whine constantly about it!). And she seems to rarely care about Bart's well being (eg: she turns against Sideshow Bob in a recent ep because of Marge, and there's the episode where she got a restraining ordered against Bart).

Every Seth show is like that. The husbands are called out for their wrong doings, while the wives rarely are. Like Lois.

Double standards,i guess(unfortunately).

Seth's shows aren't the only one to have this problem,a lot of animes(usually romantic) will have the females in the right,no matter how much of an ass they might be.

edited 23rd Aug '14 3:04:36 PM by ScottPilgrim2013

A recurring theory between many professional minds is that female Butt Monkeys just don't work as well as male ones (hence why Slapstick Knows no Gender is considered trope worthy). A male winner smugly standing over a female loser somehow looks meaner than vice versa, even in just moderated doses. Most of the time you see females recurringly pay for their misgivings it's a gender dominated cast so the issue doesn't stick out as bad (eg. Friendship Is Magic). Even glaring exceptions such as Meg are usually played blatantly for shock value and meant to be crueller than male ones. Otherwise they are usually designated as the more dignified Closer to Earth character with maybe the very subtle bit of Hypocritical Humor.

The Simpsons at the very least has went on long enough to make numerous Deconstructions. Marge and Lisa don't get called out for their flaws nearly as often as Bart and Homer, but it does actually happen, and it hits them big time in some circumstances.

edited 23rd Aug '14 4:39:45 PM by Psi001

I wholeheartally agree with the point made by Psi 001 before, despite contradicting my opinion on Brian Griffin: all the characters of Family Guy are deliberately loathsome. The Simpsons has tried to avert this soooo many times...

1) It's not that Americans hate Lisa Simpson. The stream of thought behind this idea seems to be that Americans are all conservative God-fearing Republican Party voting idiots who are too stupid to think and only like the show because Homer falls down, uh-uh-uh. Funny. Therefore Lisa, who is the intellectual of the show and has vocal leftwing opinions that go against the mass hysteria of other people must be hated by Americans, because they don't like that she just does stuff they don't understand or agree with. The actual fact is that most people who rant/talk about their hate of certain things are fanatics, fundamentalists, trolls or people who are actually frustrated because of other stuff. You hear a lot more from them, because they are more vocal in their opinions. People who truly love something are less likely to create posts, blogs or texts about it. Even this post would have never gotten so many threads if it had been called Why do people love Lisa Simpson? Negativity and cynicism attracts more attention than genuine affection. It's always been like that. And those people only dislike Lisa because she is opposite of their own opinions and viewpoints.

2) Matt Groening created Lisa as an alter ego of himself. He himself is left wing, agnostic, intellectual and geeky. This is also why so many people with intellectual geeky tastes have a soft spot for Lisa and why people whose tastes are more broad and mainstream don't specifically like her that much. I'm not saying those people are stupid for not liking her. It's just that someone like Bart - the anti authority troublemaker- and Homer - the slobby loser - appeal to a much broader spectrum of fans because of their character traits, which are more appealing to a majority of people.

3) Lisa doesn't act like a child of eight. True, but most children in the series go back and forth between acting like someone their age would and voicing more adult opinions at other times. This is really a trop Older Than Dirt. Just, look at Peanuts, one of the main inspirations for The Simpsons. If you want to see children act like children, watch a kids TV show like Hey Arnold!, or something.

4) Lisa is not as entertaining as other Simpsons characters. This is indeed the main reason why people would favor Bart, Homer, Ralph, Chief Wiggum, Moe or anyone else. But it's much like why The Road Runner is the star, despite the fact that Wile E. Coyote is the actual source of comedy in the cartoons and the character most viewers remember best. Lisa works the same way. Her superior intelligence and Dead Pan Snarker comments work as a foil against the stupidity of the other characters. By the way, the fact that people don't like her has nothing to do with the fact that she is female. Mrs Krabappel, Patty & Selma, Helen Lovejoy are women who are genuinly funny to watch. It's just that their character traits are more in line with the stupidity and/or moral corruptness of the males in the show. Lisa is too much of a The Woobie sometimes to be actually amusing. She feels alienated from the mass stupidity of the others and is often the only sensible one. It makes her sympathetic, but not funny in her own right. Her only real character flaws are that she has genuine girly obsessions like ponies, Malibu Stacy dolls and the Corey hotline that often tempt her to be seduced. Also, she watches the mindless violence of Itchy & Scratchy and enjoys it. But even in those situations she can rise above this and really question the content.

To be honest, I'm a left wing American who enjoys quite a few of the things Matt Groening has admitted he enjoys and I still am somewhat annoyed by Lisa, though this is more in episodes like "Homer vs. Lisa and the 8th Commandment," my pick for her worst moment.

edited 25th Sep '14 5:41:30 PM by Aldo930

I dont know why people keep bumping this thread. Its a complaint thread.

Even if it is, what's wrong with complaining?

Because complaining on tv tropes is bad(apparently).

edited 25th Sep '14 6:03:47 PM by ScottPilgrim2013

I have nothing against complaining. But the site doesnt look kindly on it. And conversations which consist of complaining and then some are just futile.

Plus it usually ends up with a mod coming in and doing something like "Thumping" or locking the thread.The mods here can be real strict on no drama on the forums.