Rework or Cleanup:: Evilly Affable

"Fake niceness" isn't "fake loyalty". The Evilly Affable villain doesn't have to pretend to be on your side.

This still exists.

We still need a better title here. I am having a pretty hard time coming up with anything good.

Faux Affably Evil seems to be the best name out of a bad lot.

Wow, long thread here... anyways, Affably Evil seems to mean a villain who is genuinely polite, genial etc. while still being rotten to the core. An Affably Evil villain would invite you to tea, explain his plan to Take Over the World and try to get you to join him, then when you refused to go along with it, proceed to kill you and go through with his plan anyway, shaking his head in regret that you didn't see things his way. An Evilly Affable villain is still a dick, but Crosses the Line Twice in their evil, basically getting the same treatment as a Heroic Sociopath, but as an antagonist Played for Laughs, though this doesn't mean that the threat they represent is. Laughably Evil, to compare, would mean a villain who is evil as well as funny (unlike Evilly Affable villains, their evil is not the source of humor; rather, it is a separate trait altogether). Goldfinger is Affably Evil; Saddam Hussein is Evilly Affable, and The Joker from The '60s is Laughably Evil. A possible rename for this trope could be Amusing Sociopath.

edited 24th Apr '11 5:19:34 PM by tropetown

Locked crowner and unhooked it as well, did you still need it around for any reason?

That was the impression I always got of the trope, and also the usage I've seen most of it under.

Faux Affably Evil seems best. Are we going to keep Evilly Affable as a redirect, though?

Bumpsies, I see Evilly Affable is still here.

So far I see we have Faux Affably Evil as a suggestion. Is that it?

I was under the impression it won the crowner.

Added Faux Affably Evil as a redirect. It's a step; now we can just switch the pages over if that's the decision.

On a side note, I've reached the point where "affably" no longer looks like a word.

I've reached the point where I look at the thread and I see this◊.

I've always took Affably Evil to be a character that meets some if not all the criteria for a Complete Monster but is genuinely likeable in a non-YMMV way.

We're past that now. Just looking for names.

Bump again. Let's get this over with.

Anyone have any problems with renaming this to Faux Affably Evil? I'll do it myself, I just don't want to if there's significant opposition.

I do. "The best name out of a bad lot. " is a very weak recommendation. And "Let's get this over with" is an even worse reason to go with a name that people have admitted they think is not good.

It seems that the problem between Evilly Affable and Affably Evil was that they were too easily confused. Why compound that confusion by labeling one as "Faux <the other>"? It's not someone who's faking being affably evil. Which is what faux means — fake.

edited 4th Jul '11 2:39:52 PM by Madrugada

Again, I was under the impression that the final decision was that this trope should be someone who is obviously faking their polite tendencies—in other words, Faux Affably Evil. If I missed the part where this was redefined, my apologies, but I still think this needs to be wrapped up.

EDIT: According to this crowner, the decision was to redefine to faking the polite tendencies. If we never did a rename crowner, than we need one.

edited 4th Jul '11 4:28:53 PM by Discar

The more I think about it, the more blurred the distinction seems between Affably Evil and Evilly Affable. The supposed difference is in sincerity, but that's subject to how you interpret a character, and also raises the question of where to draw the line. I'm beginning to think redefening Evilly Affable as fake Affably Evil tendencies was a mistake. In hindsight I agree with those who were saying to simply cut Evilly Affable altogether.

edited 5th Jul '11 6:33:56 AM by neoYTPism

We have a lot of stuff at YMMV that's objective trope + something subjective. It's not the cleanest solution in the world, but it's about as well adjusted as any other YMMV-type thing.

I really don't think this is YMMV, but even if it is, that's no reason to cut it.

This trope doesn't need a rename, but a clearer definition is necessary, as the difference between Evilly Affable and Laughably Evil, and, to a lesser extent, Affably Evil, is subtle. The best way to describe the difference is that Affably Evil and Laughably Evil refer to villains who are pleasant/funny as well as evil; the two qualities are unrelated. An Evilly Affable villain, on the other hand, is one who is funny and/or pleasant because of their evil; their evil deeds are played in a way that ironically makes the character endearing.

EDIT: Faux Affably Evil, by the way, is a terrible name for this trope, since the character isn't faking anything. The name implies the character is trying to be Affably Evil, when usually, they are doing nothing of the sort; it's just that their evil happens to make the character endearing.

edited 6th Jul '11 10:09:44 PM by tropetown

Please look at the linked crowner a few posts above. The definition has been decided by overwhelming majority.

Needs A Better Description seems like an accurate assessment, though.

Faux one doesn't sound all that good to me and just makes me think of Bitch in Sheep's Clothing. Really, the way I've gathered things from this trope is what's been mentioned a few times and I think is best focus really. A character who is outright evil dick who just acts so casual & charismatic about it that they cross the line twice

That's what it is, we're just taking out the requirement that it be funny, since that's subjective. It's about someone evil who obviously fakes politeness. He's basically mocking the Affably Evil character (who is genuinely polite) because he thinks its funny. Maybe the audience agrees, maybe not. That's not important.