Clean up: Gainaxing

so I'm looking at the Gainaxing article and, well, why is there a video games folder? It says right on the page that video game examples go under Jiggle Physics. The live action TV folder also seems kinda off, since it says on the page that those would go under Jiggle Show. However, the Jiggle Show article seems to be more about shows where the Gainaxing is the main attraction, so a lot of the examples under live action TV wouldn't really fit there. Either the description of Jiggle Show on the Gainaxing page needs to change, or the Jiggle Show page needs to change.

At any rate, I'm probably gonna copy over any examples from the video games folder on the Gainaxing page that aren't already on the Jiggle Physics, then delete the whole folder. Unless anyone has any objections to that.

I'm not sure what to do about the live action TV folder/Jiggle Show thing.

Didn't we previously discuss merging Jiggle Physics and Gainaxing based on them describing the same thing, just accomplished in different ways? I can't remember how that discussion went, but I'm still pro-merge.

Gainaxing, as defined, is only for animation. So the literature and live-action tv and film needs to go somewhere else or we need to broaden the trope, merge with Jiggle Physics, and rename it something broader, with those two being redirects and descriptions of them as fan terms.

EDIT: Looking at Jiggle Physics, I see examples of 2D pixel sprites. Both tropes are decaying into broader tropes, although Gainaxing seems to be doing it faster.

edited 18th Nov '10 9:58:09 PM by ccoa

I just always hated Gainaxing. It has such insanely extraordinary wick count, yet the name is so godawful.

And to say nothing about how similar this name is to Gainax Ending, jeez...

edited 18th Nov '10 9:57:51 PM by SeanMurrayI

Hmm, well, I think it would only go under Jiggle Physics if the game uses an actual physics engine for the effect. Examples of video games using 2D animation would still go under Gainaxing. It's not just a split by medium.

I don't know about the live-action examples, though. I always thought it was supposed to be about animation.

Live action examples don't count because they're not just Turn On Tropes, they're things that are undertaken that involve significantly more work than Male Gaze.

If we don't end up merging them, we apparently need a supertrope about focusing on bouncy breasts. Because we just don't have enough tropes about breasts.

edited 18th Nov '10 10:03:00 PM by ccoa

Jiggle Physics isn't just about boobs. It's about hair, clothes, and even fat. It's anything that jiggles and bounces in a video game. Boobs just happen to be the most common. It's more of a sister trope to Rag Doll Physics.

edited 18th Nov '10 10:12:53 PM by shimaspawn

huh, seems this is a bigger issue than I first thought.

Hmm, well, I think it would only go under Jiggle Physics if the game uses an actual physics engine for the effect. Examples of video games using 2D animation would still go under Gainaxing. It's not just a split by medium.

I was thinking the same thing myself, but both the Gainaxing videogames folder and the jiggle physics page have examples of both listed, so who knows?

at any rate, I copied all examples in the Gainaxing videogames folder that weren't already in Jiggle physics over to jiggle physics, but nothing has been deleted yet.

Honestly, a merge does sound like a good idea. combine them all into an article about unnecessary/unrealistic boob movage. Granted, that would leave the few examples of realistic boob movage with nowhere to go, but some sacrifices must be made.

edited 18th Nov '10 10:41:16 PM by Blissey1

We can't combine them. They aren't the same trope. Gaingaxing is just about breasts. Jiggle Physics is about hair, fat, asses, and clothing as well. We'd have to cut examples from Jiggle Physics to merge them. All of the Team Fortress examples for a start. Hats, ponytails, and heads aren't tits.

• Gainaxing: Breasts lovingly animated to bounce.
• Jiggle Physics: Anything that uses the physics engine to animate bouncing movement.

edited 18th Nov '10 10:55:59 PM by shimaspawn

That definition is not supported by the current definition of Jiggle Physics. It says it's mainly about breasts, and can occasionally apply to butts, fat, or moobs. It says nothing about hair or clothing.

Since Gainaxing has been used in reference to butts on this wiki, I'd say they're pretty darn close to being the same trope implemented different ways.

It is shown by the examples and the definition does say it can apply to other things. The trope has evolved based on it's examples to something broader. It shouldn't have to list every single possible thing that can jiggle. I'd prefer if we had Jiggle Physics as the game engine and Gainaixing to be the trope about focusing on jiggling cleavage. There's overlap, yes, but they aren't the same.

edited 18th Nov '10 11:05:30 PM by shimaspawn

Jiggle Physics is also only supposed to refer to cases where a physics engine is creating the effect. Regularly-animated 2d video game characters rightly belong under Gainaxing, which as I said in the last thread on the subject before it went to pot, I believe was originally and more popularly called Gainax Bounce in the fandom when I was involved in it. I could easily trace (via Google search) use of the later back to at least 2001 and probably the 90s if I could find references that far back, but Gainaxing only to about 2007 or 2008, which may be mostly after TV Tropes adopted it. Gainax Bounce has more context as a title and is legitimately pre-existing Anime Fan Speak.

edited 18th Nov '10 11:21:53 PM by Elle

note, however, that of all the non-boob examples under Jiggle physics, there are:
4 for ass(one of which also mentions boobs)
2 for fat(one of which also mentions boobs...fat ugly boobs, but still boobs)
1 for man boobs(which I guess would technically still go under the combined trope)
and 1 for...hats.

We really wouldn't be loosing all that much.

If it's really that big of a deal, then the combined trope would just be about unnecessary/unrealistic jiggling.

Jiggle Physics is also only supposed to refer to cases where a physics engine is creating the effect. Regularly-animated 2d video game characters rightly belong under Gainaxing.

then fixing this would be a simple matter of changing the Gainaxing page from saying

"In video games, it would involve Jiggle Physics."

to

"In 3D, it would involve Jiggle Physics."

We would still have the issue of the live action examples, however.

edited 18th Nov '10 11:19:24 PM by Blissey1

The difference between them is basically the idea of user control. You can't control how characters behave in a movie but you can in a video game. To be uncomfortably specific, you can tell your character to sway side-to-side instead of jumping. This feature was only available as hardware capabilities allowed it. The animated/film version has been around as long as the format existed (the scene with the dwarves dancing in Snow White used reference footage of hefty guys doing the same motions so they could get the physics right).

Both Gainaxing and Jiggle Physics were probably launched with the idea of specifically breasts bouncing and were expanded to other forms. Admittedly in animation and video games it comes across as more noticeable because of all the things to worry about animating, that's what they focus on. Live Action footage is usually more incidentary.

As far as fixing the tropes I would say just to make a cut-off that one is about user control and the other is about animation (this would include cutscenes, so there would still be a Video Game category)

Honestly, I think we should just expand Jiggle Physics. Back when the wiki went online the only thing anyone applied it to was breasts. This was likely true when the article was written. Now playing Shadow Hearts: Covenant, I'm watching the a female character's hair bounce with the same sort of loving detail that other games put into chests. The technology has changed since the article was written. The article should reflect the way technology has changed.

I agree with that (Also using Shadow Hearts as an example as well Karen's breasts may be big but there was little bounce to them her hair got all the attention. Yuri's fanny pack strings bounce everywhere too.)

edited 19th Nov '10 12:39:51 AM by Raso

That they do. There's a lot of bouncing in this game, but it's not breasts doing it.

We can't redefine a pre-existing term like Jiggle Physics. I suggest we make a super trope about it or else rename it if we're going to expand the trope.

Although I would submit that they are not quite the same. If a person's ponytail hangs straight and stiff in CGI, that's bad for Willing Suspension of Disbelief. The only real reason for a person's breasts to jiggle is Fanservice.

If we keep things as they are now, then they're just going to continue to have problems. Here the tropes are, back in the TRS, not long after the last time they were fixed. Either someone will have to babysit the tropes from now until eternity and someone will have to periodically check and fix wicks, or they're going to come back here over and over for a periodic clean up.

At the very least, we need a parent trope about focus on jiggling of the breasts (and probably butts) to catch the bad examples, because people seem to really like adding examples. I'm all for working smarter rather than harder.

edited 19th Nov '10 6:12:27 AM by ccoa

But if we made another trope about things jiggling in video games it would just be merged with Jiggle Physics.

Then if we want to expand the trope, we have to rename it, and either leave Jiggle Physics as a redirect or use the page to define the term without examples.

Why? The term expanded outside the wiki. Why are we required to keep it locked in statis?

That's a bold claim, and not one supported by a Google search of "Jiggle Physics."

I'm not basing it on google searches no. Those are mostly breasts no matter what you look for. I'm basing it on my text books and on the fact that it's the industry terminology. The things that make things jiggle in video games are called jiggle bones. They create Jiggle Physics. If people happen to pay more attention to the bit that's about tits, well, it's tits. People tend to focus on them.

Note that "Gainaxing" itself is a preexisting term—do a Google search for +Gainaxing -tvtropes.

I can't find a single source to support that definition of Jiggle Physics, and I can even find obscure industry terms like pillow shading. I can find jigglebones, but none of the definitions or pages for that that I saw refer to jiggle physics at all.