Neon Genesis Evangelion

Fair enough.

I know I keep bringing this up, but it still bugs me that apparently, you are supposed to sympathize with Asuka more than Rei because the former is apparently more real in terms of agency and personality, while the latter represents submission and blind obedience. Basically, picking Asuka means you are accepting the harsh reality of reality and relationships, while if you pick Rei, you are going for someone who isn't human, has no personality, and is ultimately a retreat from reality.

Anyone else think that that's complete and utter bull****?

Not really.

Rei, especially Rei q, is a take that at the japanese otaku that infantalize women in the same sense that Furiae was a take that at people that idolized Sister Princess.

Who is telling you to sympathize with one more than the other? Tell them to piss off and enjoy their perspective for themselves, while you enjoy yours.

@L Dragon 2

I find your complaints about the Evageeks and their Asuka fanboyism combined with their love of Rebuild amusing.

Since one of the most obvious Take That! by Anno against the Fan Dumb in the Rebuild 2.0 movie is targeted squarely at Asuka fans.

In fact it's one of the reasons I really don't care for the Rebuild movies. I'm not a big fan of creators using their movies as a means of attacking Fan Dumb. Even when I agree with the criticism.

Essentially Rebuild is attacking this tendency among Asuka fans to depict her as a typical tsundere instead of a traumatized teenager who acts out with aggression and violence due to her inability to be honest with her emotions due to a fear of abandonment. Basically, Anno wants to point out that she is a deeply flawed human being, not some heroine in a harem anime.

Some of the things you have referenced from Evageeks let me see how Rebuild 2.0 also targets Fan Dumb about Rei.

Rei is a deeply traumatized teenager who has been deprived of affection and kept socially isolated so as to make her emotionally dependent on her abuser so that he can use her as an Apocalypse Maiden making her borderline suicidal and unable to function in normal society.

She is not some Broken Bird Yamato Nadeshiko in a harem anime, and a relationship with her would not be peaches and cream. (And that doesn't even get into the incestuous Ophedial overtones of a Shinji/Rei relationship).

In fact I think the way both Rei and Asuka are sort of smoothed out in the Rebuild movies into less creepy and grating versions of their original depictions is the thing I dislike the most about the Rebuild series.

The way I see it, there is no "right choice" between Asuka and Rei. Shinji chose Asuka, and symbolically, within the context of the show I tend to agree that was the better choice for Shinji. (As I think it clear that Rei symbolically represented Shinji's mother complex). But I don't think there was any intent that a viewers preference for a different archetype means they are rejecting the messiness of life, as both Asuka and Rei are quite messy in their own unique ways and each has her own flaws.

Personally I find the obsession of determining "best girl" to be annoying, as I happen to like virtually all the characters in Evangelion, including Rei, Asuka, and Shinji. (The only ones I do not like are Yui and Gendo Ikari - and probably mama Akari too).

Yeah, people seem to think that Asuka is the perfect partner because of symbolic reasons, as opposed to actually thinking about if it would work in real life.

I personally ship Shinji and Rei (and see it as not really being incest due to her nature as a Half-Human Hybrid), but I can acknowledge that it isn't what one would call the most stable of relationships. Personally, I just feel that through each other, especially in the second Rebuild film, their connection with each other is what allows them to become better people and open up to others.

Except the other half human part is still closer to being a human then even a great ape like a Chimpanzee, to the point of being near identical.

Hence why the incest thing is brought up.....

What, the Angel half? That's true. Even so, despite the similarities, the two species are still different, and that part isn't Yui either. She's not Yui or Lilith, but her own person after all despite being a clone.

I know, I'm a bit of a delusional shipper, but I still don't see it as incest. Plus, cloning has always been a theme that has intrigued me, and her relationship with Shinji only adds to that.

edited 31st Mar '17 11:48:18 PM by LDragon2

Hey look, Khara is in fact working on the next Eva film after all!

At this point, I see it as incest, no ifs and buts about it

Not that it would stop Japanese from shipping them, but still.

And yes, Khara are working on the final rebuild film now.

When it comes to whether Rei is closely enough related to Yui or not, my official stance on the matter is that whether she's close enough for it to be incest or whether she's far enough for it to be bestiality, I don't give a damn either way.

Rei is Rei, not a fake Yui. Treating her as a human being rather than a speech-capable plot device isn't shipping, it's basic fucking decency.

edited 5th Apr '17 9:01:24 AM by amitakartok

True.

But that's not what the Narrative wanted you to think, especially in Rebuild.

That's what I see from it, and I'll take it to heart instead of the people who think OMG TEH REI is the only possible interpretation of her character.

Again: Anno can't tell us what to think.

He can give his own opinion, but he isn't and never will be the ultimate authority over our thoughts.

I never said that.

I just said that if that's what he wants, you can follow his opinion if you wanted to.

I see what you're saying and understand that as well. However, based on everything I've seen from the story and Rei's origins, I still feel that the relationship between those two isn't really incest. Maybe it's a case of Relationship Writing Fumble, but Rei and Shinji, especially in Rebuild, seem to share a pretty strong bond with each other that can be viewed as either romantic or sibling. Rebuild especially has their relationship as one of the cores of the story (whereas it was his relationship with Asuka in the original that was one of them), and he seemed less upset in 3.0 that she was a clone than the fact that Rei Q wasn't the one he knew before.

Just my thoughts. I've always had issues with Anno's interpretations of characters and relationships as well, so that could be a reason for my stance, but my point still stands.

edited 5th Apr '17 9:40:25 AM by LDragon2

So I'm finally watching Rebuild 3.0 and yeah, all the Locked Out of the Loop bullshit is pissing me off.

Neon Genesis Evangelion is an anime adaption of the three Queen songs Bohemian Rhapsody, Somebody to Love and Death on Two Legs all in one narrative.

And there is nothing you can convince me otherwise.

Buh?

edited 15th Apr '17 9:41:57 PM by Demetrios

Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdUPwR6mzXo&t

That was Crazy Awesome.

"Shinji trying to save Rei doomed everyone else, and he should have just left her to die."

Wouldn't not trying to save her have left the Angel to kill everyone anyway?

My point exactly. It just comes off as incredibly mean spirited and puts the themes over the actual story.

Sure, he could have just killed the Angel and be done with it, but that's also rather cold-hearted when the option to save your friend is at hand. I'm honestly not sure what Anno was thinking here. And since it put him in another depression, I wouldn't be surprised if he's also thinking twice about his decision.

edited 16th Apr '17 12:52:11 PM by LDragon2

I am not sure about that but then Anno does like to potshots a fans. I don't think Anno is that petty but he does want to help otaku or least before he gave up trying.

Rebuild is such a trainwreck that I don't spend alot of time on it. I prefer the original series which I consider better in everyway except for animation quality, and even that isn't by much.

... Wow, how many years has it been since I've seen your name around this site, Sackett?