Pokémon anime

Its also interesting that in the sagas where Ash gets all 3 starters, only one of them evolves and they mostly stay unevolved. Yet when he gets only 1 or 2 starters, they all fully evolved.

BW would have been better if the starters were split up among the cast. Ash with Oshawott so it would fully evolve, Tepig with Iris since she really liked it in its first appearance, and Snivy with Cilan because they're both green-colored.

I also kind of feel Totodile should have gone to Misty in Johto, because well, Ash never really did anything with Totodile much and its his weakest pokemon in his lineup.

Funny you should mention that... The owner of Dogasu's Backpack, when he did his Sub/Dub Comparison of Episode 11 of the OS, actually contemplated on the idea that Brock should have gotten Charmander way back then, reasoning that the episode kinda-sorta botched Ash and Brock's differing levels of care for the lizard - he pointed out that Brock actually was shown consistently worrying about Charmander's well-being and put things on the line to a strong extent, such that he wondered what the show would have been if this had come to pass. By extension, I think he might have mentioned the idea of Misty, rather than Ash, getting Squirtle; don't quote me on that though, I'm unsure if I remember this correctly.

Even funnier is that when we get to Johto, the very next episode - the one where we met Casey - opened with the triad discussing the Johto Starters: Ash expressed interest in Chikorita, Misty (of course) in Totodile, and Brock in Cyndaquil; guess what two did not happen before long, and which one did?

The Unova team definitely suffered from sloppy character development - and spotlight - all around, which is a shame because at least half of Ash's team that region had interesting base personalities and so much untapped potential. Krookodile's build-up should have made him the Chimchar or Treecko (or at least the Gliscor) of the team, yet after his capture he appeared so rarely and didn't even get to participate in a 6-on-6 thanks to Cameron's meddling. Unfezant deserved more important battles (including the bloody Gyms - at least she should have battled against Burgh!) instead of being so underused, especially since unlike Pidgeotto and Noctowl she didn't have TR's balloon to pop - making her underexposure more noticeable. Oshawott and Pignite... the former was Plucky Comic Relief to be sure, and wasn't a Creator's Pet to Piplup's level, but at the least he could've gotten to win some more battles later on, especially since he learned Hydro Pump among other things; the latter seemed to stagnate after his evolution in terms of growth, while his getting to win so much in the later big battles both robbed his teammates of glory and had the side-effect of happening in a dull manner (besides his defeat of Hydreigon - the other two were beating a Scolipede which already is disadvantaged by its Typing, and schooling Cameron's Ferrothorn which is double disadvantaged by its Typing. I don't even get what the point of that was besides laziness on the writers parts, right?). Don't get me started on Palpitoad, the king of the Flat Character archetype in this series (he makes Primeape look like a nuanced, complex character; freaking Primeape, guys!).

Of all of them though, Snivy in particular irks me because despite having a likeable personality, she was defined by her relationships with her teammates (and trainer) above all else, with aspects like her rivalry with Emolga or her former trainer picked up on and expanded, even in a couple episodes of otherwise-Filler; more than that, she never changed her move-set from the 4 moves she started with, let alone evolved as a sign of development (frankly, much as people rag on Oshawott's not evolving, based on personality her arc would've made more sense than his and arguably even Tepig's). The fact that Ash pretty much stopped using Attract altogether after the Clay battle (I think the final time was the double-battle with Shamus?) should have at least led into giving her a new move to replace it. Truth is that I would have forgiven Pignite's being stuck in the middle stage if Snivy had also evolved (it would've at least been consistent with Kanto and Johto, which also had exactly 2 evolutions among the Starters), preferably to kick Lucario's ass in the Unova League Conference, but alas...

Whew! I'm so glad Nini didn't get past the first round. Hopefully, she'll never appear again, but if she does, she'll be the Burgundy of XY. On the positive side, though, it's great to know Shauna has two keys now, and the return of the background performers from the past is always a plus.

It's like in AG/DP where characters can get keys off-screen, no biggie, since Shauna apparently has 2.

Also Squishy isn't the official English name per se, but a translation of Puni-chan with context. They were gonna use Puni-chan at first but then the story involves how it got its nickname, so rather than doing Translator Note instead they use Squishy.

I would laugh so hard if its official English name was Squishy.

Serena's performance episode was OK, the animation was really improved, but the concept itself is still just not as interesting as Contests were. Although I do like that they give Serena some development and emotional scenes (and to a lesser extent all the pretty dress-up shots), so eh. Serena only needs 1 key left. She'll probably lose the next one just so they can stretch out her quest a bit more.

You can tell the writers really aren't sure how to get much mileage out of this quest like they did with Contests, because they made so many of those each series.

The writers made 15 Contests and two Grand Festivals in AG, as well as 11 Contests and 1 Grand Festival in DP. I doubt we'll see Serena in even half as many showcases by the end of XY.

edited 8th Oct '15 11:08:56 AM by precita

You know, I like Serena well enough, but in hindsight this makes me appreciate Dawn all the more. I honestly think she had the best "arc" of all the female companions with May a close second.

I think she had the better development of a character going from rookie to competent and I liked her dynamic with Ash.

edited 8th Oct '15 12:28:51 PM by Lionheart0

Well Dawn was pretty much written as a co-star, she was billed as Ash's equal in DP which no other female companion ever got. The first DP episode is almost entirely about Dawn and Ash doesn't appear until the last 5 minutes. Also since it was the second round of Contests, the writers were able to elaborate on Contest techniques a bit more after the AG ones.

You know prior to recently, each female companion generally got more screentime than the previous. There was a natural transition from Misty to May to Dawn where each female lead was getting more and more focus. Once they went to Iris they went back down to the female supporting character role, and while Serena gets slightly more its still not as much as past girls.

I also feel like since Clemont/Bonnie are new characters, they tend to get equal or moreso screentime than Serena. Since Brock was such an old character in AG and DP, the writers could get away with ignoring him most of the time because his character was already established in the Kanto/Johto era.

May's arc struck me as effectively separate from Ash's: Ash had his badges, May had her ribbons, and, until the end, never the two quests did meet. Sure they had Max in common (one as sibling the other as mentor/student) along with Ash's battle vs Norman (which was much more a crisis for Max than for May,) but I don't recall Ash adopting a battle style off of May's contest technique. Contrast the Counter-Shield technique, Ash's interactions with Zoey, Nando and Conway Crossing from Contests and Dawn's circle respectively to the League, and, of course, Ash and Dawn (and Brock) being The Chosen Ones against the Team Galactic plot. Now granted, Ash's Glalie did learn techniques from Robert, the eventual Hoenn Festival Winner, but that still didn't really connect with May's quest except that Robert beat Drew in the finals.

Still, primarily because they were separate, I consider Ash and May to be equal, but only in the sense of there being two quests of roughly equal focus.

Well just by common knowledge, the Contests were treated like full fledged story arcs and got practically the same screentime as the Gyms in every saga they were in. Misty/Iris had no ongoing quests, and Serena's showcases started a year into XY and she only needs to win 3 of them...and as we can see we're not getting a lot of episodes spent on them.

In AG they made 15 Contests total, with other episodes resembling them:

5 in Hoenn May won 2 in Hoenn May lost 1st Contest in Hoenn May just watched and didn't compete 5 in Battle Frontier May won 1 in Battle Frontier May lost 1 Contest-esque battle against Drew in his final episode 1 exhibition Contest against Ash in AG's finale of Sceptile Vs. Blaziken

Then May had two Grand Festivals both of which were 3-parters.

In DP they made 11-12 Contests:

5 in DP Dawn won 5 (!) in DP Dawn lost 1 Contest with Salvia battling Jessie with her Togekiss, Dawn didn't enter this one 1 exhibition Contest where Jessie used Aipom

Dawn's Grand Festival was a 4-parter, but almost one full episode went to Zoey Vs. Nando, so Dawn herself didn't get much more screentime in the GF than May did.

I mean the Contests got a LOT of screentime. There should be no doubt in anyones mind May and Dawn got far more focus than all the other female companions. This is not even counting all the other episodes they got where they captured/evolved a pokemon, starred in a filler episode, had an ep with their rivals, shared an ep with Ash, etc.

edited 8th Oct '15 7:51:10 PM by precita

They were basically redoing the OS Team with rotation in BW. The Bird, The Bug, The Starter Trio, etc. Palpitoad = Kingler and well… you know how he was treated after his signature win in the Indigo League.

Was that a good idea? Perhaps not when considering giving equal screen time to a team of 9 plus Pikachu would be tricky on top of the rest of the cast (adding Charizard to the mix didn't help either), but I've got to give them points for trying.

I still think Pikachu + 7 others (1 for each gym) could work. With maybe an 8th late capture for the League or Filler.

edited 8th Oct '15 9:05:11 PM by WorldTurtle2

Eh personally I like how Serena is handled. She was a character who didn't really like anything but jumped in because Ash was in it, but eventually learns how to live the life outside her comfort zone (her room makes her look like a Girls Love Stuffed Animals). She then goes out trying out something that she likes, finally deciding on performing. Her mom doubts her about that as she usually gives up on something, but after a heart-to-heart talk she shows she has conviction and we see her sticking to her goal because she lost on the first time.

It makes her different from the rest because all this she was inspired by Ash, and I guess that's how Bonnie and Clemont got their gear on too. Someone made a good tumblr post about it.

edited 9th Oct '15 1:12:07 AM by Ookamikun

It all depends on where it ends for me; I do agree about Dawn's arc being pretty well done and the intersecting between hers and Ash's plots made their dynamic really interesting to watch. I also loved how Ash took one of Dawn's techniques and just pretty much made it his own.

May, its the first time the series tried that sort of plot, so it definitely had its rough patches. I wouldn't necessarily consider May a co-star on the same level as Ash tho, mostly because she's only kind of relevant when it comes to contest, otherwise Ash is the updispiuted main character there.

Serena has been decent so far, but yea her arc is nowhere near as good as Dawn's atm. Probably because while she is getting more focus, she is still mostly a supporting character and not as much detail is going into the performances as they did with the contests imo.

Everything I've heard about anime Serena make me think her arc has less in common with May or Dawn and more in common with Cilan or Brock.

On an episode to episode basis Serena is not really focused on as much as past girls. It takes her 47 episodes just to capture her first pokemon, she doesn't enter her goal until XY 60. She also does the least amount of battling of virtually any companion since uh...Tracey? She's only been in 4 non-TR battles in her entire run, and 3 of them were unfinished without a conclusion. Since her goal also has no battling, we're not getting anything there.

Also in the general filler episodes or Ash-centric episodes, Serena generally doesn't do much but hang to the sidelines just observing what's going on. The only episodes she takes charges are ones that focus on her specifically, or ones with her mother, etc. I think it might also be because she has the most passive and least aggressive personality of all the main girls.

She's mostly written as Ash's love interest with some idol fanservice on the side. I'd wager to say Clemont/Bonnie as a duo get pretty much even screentime as her, whereas previously the main girl always got more focus than Brock for example. Since she also only needs to win 3 Princess keys, her goal is nowhere as focused on as Contests were either. We've only seen Serena enter 3 Tripokalon's and the badge quest is nearing its end.

I think she's a good character for what the writers are going for, but she feels more like a support character than a leading heroine like she should be.

edited 9th Oct '15 2:23:55 PM by precita

Except that she's actually pursuing her goal unlike the two aforementioned boys and also has a (somewhat) hostile rival (plus a not-so-hostile one). This actually makes Serena more like Iris than Cilan or Brock. At the very least, I'd say she has about as much focus as Iris did.

That's probably the intention? I don't really mind Serena having more of a support role, especially since the main focus of her character, for better or worse, is towards Ash.

Looks like Serena will be a Satellite Love Interest for the entire series then.

edited 10th Oct '15 10:45:58 AM by superboy313

Its kind of funny how Serena's crush on Ash is like a role reversal of Misty's. Misty had the tsundere and bickering aspect with Ash, whereas Serena has the unrequited submissive girly waifu crush on Ash.

Sometimes I wish Serena was introduced a decade ago, if only to see the epic flamewars and shipping debates between Serena and Misty fans. If the way Misty fans reacted to May was bad, I can't imagine if it was Serena there with as blatant a crush as she has now.

I still have nightmares of the Misty Vs. May debates the Pokemon fandom had in the early 2000's. lol.

I wouldn't call it a role reversal so much as an "opposite dynamic". In addition to the respective ladies, there's also Ash's responses to them:

• With Misty, he was trading barbs quite a bit.
• With Serena, he's supportive and, at least early on, even gentlemanly; what with his Holding Hands helping her cross creeks and all.

edited 10th Oct '15 6:53:06 PM by DonaldthePotholer

And I wouldn't really put much romance in Misty's side anyway.

Most of the people who won't watch anything after Misty left are all likely the original kids who grew up with the Kanto saga and Orange Islands in 1998-1999 and couldn't bear the thought that the anime was going on without Misty. And almost all of it is because of Pokeshipping, since they really believed the anime was about Misty and Ash. These are the people you still see ranting on youtube about Misty returning or sat there trolling pokemon forums like Bulbagarden, Serebii, etc. for over a decade.

I don't see why they matter anymore, since its been a whopping 13 years since Misty's permanent departure and she's remained off the series in every passing generation with a new female lead. Misty's now been gone for like 70% of the animes run.

They honestly remind me of the people who only like the original 151 pokemon (or 251) and hate all the new pokemon designs because they can't handle Pokemon continued long after their childhood ended.

I grew up with the OS, but stopped watching shortly after the beginning of season 2 for some reason. Mostly because I had to catch it on TV back then, which meant I usually ended up missing it due to other stuff I had to do.

I quite like this latest season though. It's probably one of the better written ones.

In regards to the previous discussion on Starters do you ever think they'll give Ash all three again?

Personally, I kind of want to see different combinations. We've seen him with all three (three times), Grass by itself, Grass and Fire together, and Water by itself.

That leaves Fire and Water, Grass and Water, and Fire by itself.

edited 13th Oct '15 11:02:20 PM by WorldTurtle2

I feel like they've done everything. Ash has gotten all 3 starters 3 times (Kanto, Johto and Unova), he got only 1 starter two times (Hoenn and Kalos), and got two starters in one region (Sinnoh).

Its also pretty funny Ash always got the grass starter for 5 regions in a row until now. Its weird because I don't even realize Ash has 5 grass starters...its just not something I think about. Like he's missing a lot of fire starters (Torchic, Fennekn), and water (Mudkip and Piplup), but he has all the grass till Chespin.

In terms of the female companions, its interesting the girl got the fire starter twice, and Dawn got the water one. So a main girl has never had a grass starter thus far.