During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yes
The Unknown Unknown
They just can't let it go, huh?
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
Goku Black
Sure go ahead. Your still doing Freeza's effort-post for this arc right (I say effort-post as his charcater page is currently a mess with redeeming qualities, so an effort-post to clear everything up would be a good idea).
edited 23rd Mar '18 11:49:11 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Of course they're not going to let it go. Dragon Ball is one of the most popular series out there.
Standing Freeza doesn't need an EP at the end unless there are factors that need to be discussed at the end of his arc, and I find it immensely unlikely the current arc is going to conclude without completely subverting those.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Just hope they give Freeza a better fate than Deus ex Machina time travel BS.
edited 23rd Mar '18 12:07:13 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Lizzid people!
Honestly don't really think an EP would be necessary myself.
Freeza deserves nothing more than an Ass Pull defeat.
Anyway, I remember watching the trailer for TDOS and thinking "I don't think anyone's gonna count. Too funny."
Guess I was mistaken. ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Beria.
to Gary Tison and Lavrentiy Beria.
Now then, in my search to redeem myself of my three failed EP, I have not one but two potential candidates for the CM trope. But before then let me discuss the work where I found them, Kaze No Stigma.
What's The Work?
Kaze no Stigma is a Japanese light novel series that spawned into a manga that spawned into an anime series revolving around action, romance, and the supernatural.
It revolves around Kazuma Kannagi, who was defeated by his cousin Ayano Kannagi for the right to be the possessor of Enraiha, a sword passed down in the Kannagi family, a powerful and prestigious clan of fire mages. His pathetic defeat and complete failure at the fire arts resulted in his banishment from his family and unspoken exile from Japan.
Four year later Kazuma has returned for a casual demon-hunting job, only now, he's somehow become a snarky, crazily-powerful wind mage who easily manhandles demons and his former family alike.
Now for my first candidate introducing Micheal Harley
Who Is He? What Has He Done?
Micheal Harley is a member of the Stars of Sagacity, an organization related to Kazuma's past and Tsui-Ling's death. Sent by the organization to kill Kazuma, Micheal learns of Misao Oogami desire to seek vengeance against Kazuma for killing her brother, Micheal exploit her desire to benefit his own end.
Micheal come towards Misao pretending to be a guardian angel and manipulates her into killing hundreds of innocent people. Micheal would have Misao summon ectoplasm to slowly suffocate these hundreds of people while draining their Yoki (magical life energy) away and they would target these hundred of people in hospitals. Micheal would also have Misao kill her own family member on the pretense that their Yoki will give her even more power.
When they collected more than enough Yoki energy from their hundreds of victims, including Miao's own family members and has Misao absorb them, Micheal reveals his true intentions to Misao. Micheal never really gave a crap about Misao wanting to avenge her fallen brother, he only used her to gather more than enough yoki energy so he can use her as a powerful medium to use to kill Kazuma.
Not only that but Micheal with cold sadism gloats how her brother's death made it easy to manipulate Misao into doing whatever he wanted, and her wanting to avenge him had all been for nothing. This drives Misao mad and screams with agony, grief, and remorse much to Micheal's delight.
Micheal then uses all the yoki within Misao's body to forcibly transform her into a dragon, and sends her to kill Kazuma, while gloating that should Kazuma kill the dragon, he would also be killing Misao. Kazuma however find a way to kill the dragon and Micheal, but spare Misao by using his wind magic to increase the powers of Ayano's Shinen-empowered Enraiha. From there Ayano slays the dragon, kills Micheal, and save Misao.
Freudian Excuse? Redeeming Qualities
The only thing about Micheal's past is that he was a member of the Stars of Sagacity, an organization related to Kazuma's past and Tsui-Ling's death. That's it!
As said its made clear that he doesn't really care for Misao or her desires to avenge her brother's death only using her to kill hundreds of innocent people, and was more than willing to endanger her life if it means he can use her to kill Kazuma. So Nada on both counts!
Heinousness
With his limited appearance, Micheal Harley manages to go all out and give himself one hell of a niche.
His body count is in the hundreds most of them are sick innocent people in hospitals. What's worst is that he manipulates an innocent girl grieving for her brother's death into murdering all these hundreds of people for him, including her own family member's then show cold sadism in sending the poor girl mad with despair before transforming her into a dragon against her will, and sends her to kill Kazuma and her friend.
There was a wind magic user before Micheal showed that was killing fire magic users, including Misao's brother and framing Kazuma for it, but his body count isn't even close to matching Micheal. There was also a demon,The Beast that debuted, after Micheal death, who was inprisoned in Mt.Fuji manipulating an earth magic user into sacrificing a girl and releasing him from his prison, but isn't given much characterization other than an evil demon that must be stopped, and doesn't even have the onsrcreen body count Micheal Harley has.
Honestly, the only person who can match Micheal Harley in terms of heinousness is the Big Bad who I will EP later.
Final Verdict
I have to give this guy a ! What about you guys?
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Also please don't ignore my EP. I really worked hard on it
edited 23rd Mar '18 2:51:49 PM by G-Editor
to Mr. Beria. Given that he frequently appears on lists of people who may have literally had no redeeming qualities in real life I'm surprised it's taken this long for a version of him to appear here.
Poor Beria. He never got a chance to shine because Adolf and Jack hogging the limelight all the time. 
V
Beria. Sounds like an interesting candidate. The type of candidate I'd vote on.
Now, since I suppose I'm done with Wallander (although I may have one left), time to move on to another Swedish series. This time a film series named Johan Falk.
What is the Work?
Johan Falk is a long-running Swedish film series, not TV show, film series, which follows Johan Falk, the nicest cop you'll ever see. Different from other similar series, Johan Falk has more recurring characters who appear in mutliple films rather than one-shots. Starting out in 1999, the series has ever since produced 20 films, and is probably the most popular of its kind, with Wallander and Beck not being quite as iconic, but still, iconic. The 1999 film includes a sadistic, cold-blooded murderer named Leo Gaut, who the police struggle to get into prison due to blackmailing and other things.
Who is our candidate? What does he do?
Leo Gaut is ultimately imprisoned for years, and is expected once he is out to continue his criminal career and instantly start killing people again. Surprise, he doesn't. Tricked you. And instead he grows a family with a wonderful wife... well, he already had his daughter before he came out of prison, but you get the idea. Since Leo Gaut used to own a restaurant, classic, he still owns it. However, things don't go as expected when their young son Johnny is shown to have a horrible case of autism, and no simple autism, the most horrible type, like barely-can-speak-type autism, all while other restaurant owners start confronting Leo and try starting a war. The leader's name is Anton Montay.
Anton Montay is introduced setting a bomb inside a car at a big primary school, causing a huge explosion and risking the children's lives. Yeah, that's how he is introduced, and I think that alone is heinous enough. He quickly steps into his car and drives away, with Patrick, one of the policemen, becoming furious due to his own children being scarily close to the explosion. Johan Falk saw and remembered the car, and starts chasing Montay. Montay stops at a popular shopping center and starts running after a while, and starts firing with his gun to the roof to cause chaos. When Johan Falk confronts him and tells him to drop the gun, he quickly grabs an innocent parent and holds him hostage. He says that Falk is the one who should walk away, so he does. Montay let's him go, which isn't mitigating at all by the way, and fires once again in the roof causing even more chaos.
A little later we get to see Leo's relationship with Montay, and it's not a very pretty one. Due to a (business?) deal gone wrong between the two, Montay wants to make Leo learn something, sounds familiar? Montay goes home to Leo with five henchmen and starts heavily abusing him, so hard that Leo obtains a huge scar on his face, which... makes him look more badass. While doing this, Montay starts teasing and insulting him, all with a smug smile on his face. The same day, when Leo's beloved daughter is going home from her boyfriend, it's late night in the city, so a pretty slick night, Montay drives by and sets the place on fire, most likely killing her. This pushes Leo above the edge, and he kills two of Montay's henchmen.
Montay doesn't return until the end of the film, where he crosses the MEH when he kidnaps Leo's wife and his autistic son, who he continually terrorizes with his henchmen. He tortures the son especially much, which psychologically absolutely screws him up. When the police come, Montay manages to escape, not caring about his henchmen being beat up, and stands on the roof with Falk. Of course, he holds Johnny hostage and messes with him. He once again manages to get Falk to drop his gun, and let's the hostage to go free - but not in the way Falk wanted to. Due to how psychologically messed up Johnny is at this point, he walks down the roof. Luckily, Johan Falk comes and stops him from falling down. Montay walks down from a ladder, but gets killed by Leo Gaut. However, Leo Gaut dies a sad death some minutes later, and I genuinely started crying a little. Montay succeeds in the end, and Leo Gaut's family is traumatized. Leo could have achieved so much!
Freudian Excuse/Mitigating Factors
Nope. Him letting his hostages go isn't redeeming; why would it be?
Heinousness?
Seth Rydell, the most recurring villain who appears in pretty much every film, doesn't even come close to Montay's attempted body count. Let me remind you about this, Seth Rydell appears in 14 movies, Anton Montay appears in 1.
Conclusion?
I'd give him a yes, but you'll get to decide.
EDIT: Michael.
edited 23rd Mar '18 3:02:33 PM by MenInGreyToBlak
Harley and Montay.
edited 23rd Mar '18 3:07:56 PM by Beast
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Yes on Michael and Montay...... Fun fact that I watch Kaze no Stigma once and I don't remember it had a CM in it until now. Maybe I didn't watch it to the fullest
edited 23rd Mar '18 3:31:23 PM by ElfenLiedFan90
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Beria Harley and Montay
Not counting Alternate history.com, is there any other version of Stalin to count?
edited 23rd Mar '18 3:20:49 PM by hegelvonaxel
Guys, Montay is the candidate, Gaut is the repentant criminal he's going after.
I see no problem giving a to Micheal, Movie!Beria, and Montay.
Yes to Beria, Michael and Montay.
Montay and Michael
Beria, Michael, and Montay.
Montay
While now for the next candidate from Kaze no Stigma, introducing Bernhardt Rhodes!
Who Is He? What Has He Done?
Bernhardt Rhodes, AKA Vesalius, is the Big Bad of the series, the Arch-Enemy of Kazuma, and the leader of Armagest, a european magic organization with plans to gain power by sacrificing the innocent to powerful demons to aid their cause in taking over the world.
One of these unfortunate victims includes Kazuma’s First Love Tsui Ling, whom he along with the other members feed to the demon king, Belial.
Upon learning of Kazuma appearance in Tokyo, Japan he made a deal with the Stars of Sagacity and send the aforementioned Micheal Harley to kill Kazuma and let Micheal do whatever he wanted to achieve that goal.
He also use the remnants of Tsui Ling to create a clone of hers called Lapis, turning her into a cold and emotionless killer, all to drive Kazuma into the brink of insanity, and nearly succeed in doing so.
He also created site game called “Pandemonium”. in this game anybody who entered the web site was confronted with a simple single question: “Do you want power?” if the users answered yes a virtual Yomi (evil spirit) was downloaded providing the user with supernatural powers, but at the cost of their souls, a fact that they were never told nor did they ever knew that or the fact that they were possessed by demons. He would then have them fight each other to the death where the winner would achieve higher levels and more power. These player are all teenagers who were given powers to kill innocent people and reek havoc throughout Tokyo.
Ren, Kazuma and Ayano discovered this plan and entered the Pandemonium to confront Bernhardt and Lapis, but the duo escape unharmed, and in the process destroyed the building that they were at already killing around a hundred of innocent people.
Eventually the true objective of Pandemonium, To have the high ranking players killing the weaker players and other innocent so that they gather enough soul before transforming them into demons against their will and have them all be sacrificed to summon the Demon King Belial.
From there Rhodes commands Belial to destroy all of Tokyo while he sadistically watches to carnage that his machinations have created. However his plans were foiled by Kazuma, Ren and Ayano and the demon was sealed again. However, Rhodes manages to escape from them once again but not before having Lapis say the Tsui Ling’s last words were that she wished Kazuma” psychologically torturing Kazuma once more.
Freudian Excuse? Redeeming Qualities?
Okay so Kazuma and others claimed that the reason why Rhodes hates him so much is that he killed the previous leader of Armagest and his master Erwin Leszaar. Now I have to say thats pretty inaccurate, as when Kazuma mentions killing his master, Rhodes merely just shrugs that off saying that tormenting Kazuma is simply just a side activity he create out of boredom, and his main objective is to sacrifice hundreds of people to summon Belial and have him destroy Tokyo with the reason behind that being that he considers it theatrical drama. If anything he was a Psycho Supporter to Erwin at best and a self serving sadist at worst.
As his relationship with Lapis the clone he created, he merely sees her as a tool to use to psychologically torment Kazuma and doesn’t really show any genuine care for her. Basically Lapis’ entire existence was to just sadistically troll Kazuma. So a no go on both counts
Heinousness?
The only person who is just as heinous, if not more so than, Micheal Harley. Not only does he have a body count in the hundreds like Micheal, but he also has his victims fight each other to the death before sacrificing them to Belial. He also a much more personal enemy for Kazuma having been apart of the feeding of Tsui Ling to Belial.
Now then Belial doesn’t because he doesn’t get any characterization other than be “the evil demon that must be stop” and doesn’t have enough onscreen villainy compared to Rhodes. There’s also Rhodes master Erwin who led to sacrifice of Tsui Ling but other than that doesn’t have any other onscreen villainy. There also Lapis be she doesn’t count because she was created and brainwashed by Rhodes to be a cold sadistic killer and torment Kazuma and doesn’t enough free will to make her own desicion Now out of all the people affected by Rhodes “Pandemonium” Utsumi stands out as the most vile, but even he doesn’t compare to the likes of Micheal Harley and Rhodes having a body count of only a few women. So yeah Rhodes clears this area to .
Final Verdict
definitely leaning towards ? I leave the rest to you guys
edited 23rd Mar '18 6:56:38 PM by G-Editor
My second Robocop candidate:
Who are they and what do they do?
Aza, the leader of a group of rebels in San Arica. He kidnaps Robocop's wife and son and takes them back to San Arica. He threatens to kill them if Robocop does not assassinate the president of San Arica. Arriving in San Arica to try and rescue his family, Robocop discovers the corpse of someone who wandered into a town that belonged to Aza's men. The man was stabbed in the chest with a nail and left as a warning.
When the townspeople see Robocop, one of them states that since he didn't comply, Aza will kill the family, excitedly saying that he may even allow his men to rape the wife before they kill her. Robocop takes them out and meets up with someone who is against Aza. The man warns Robocop of Aza's power and tells him that while Aza supposedly wants to assassinate the president so that San Arica can be free of his reign, the truth is different. Aza just wants to take over San Arica himself, and his rule would be just as bad as it currently is.
Aza finds the two and, enraged at Robocop going against him, brutally tortures him with an electric whip, causing him great pain. He than has Robocop's wife brought forward so she can watch him die, saying that he's going to kill her and her son next.
Falling unconscious from the electricity, Robocop awakens to find that Aza is now going to kill his son and use him as a blood sacrifice. Seeing Robocop awake, Aza is happy that he and Ellen will be forced to watch their son Jimmy die before he moves on to them. Breaking free of his chains, Robocop fights Aza. At first, Aza manages to beat down Robocop by punching his still human face. However, as Aza prepares to fry Robocop's circuits with his whip, Robocop grabs the whip and redirects the electricity, causing it to electrocute Aza instead, instantly killing him.
Heinousness?
He lacks the bodycount that O'Hara has, but he has three things to him that O'Hara does not; attempted child murder, torture, and trying to force the hero to watch him kill his family. One of his men even suggests that Aza may have let them rape Ellen before he killed her. Even Bodicker didn't try to force someone to watch him kill their child.
Mitigating factors?
None really. He claims that he wants to read his home of its terrible president, but, as explained, this is just a front as he simply wants power.
jjj
Unsure on Azra.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'll read all these effortposts tomorrow, but as for Stalin? We've got this one; and, if you wanna count him, Napoleon.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
for Anton Montay and Kaze no Stigma villains.
Aza? Mm......even if he wasn't in the RoboCop franchise? Kidnapping and threatening to kill the hero's family is a bit standard. I'll admit that attempted rape and attempted child murder does make him stand out a bit. But again, the heinous standard for this particular series is a bit high. And while O'Hara does indeed have a higher body count, he achieved quite a lot of damage in one issue, and he didn't even have the same resources as Aza.
So, unfortunately, I'm gonna have to vote ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
.
I'm Sad Frogerson.
I removed this entry from The Hitman's Bodyguard, since he wasn't approved by the thread. This character only appears briefly in a flashback, has no name or any lines of dialogue, and is completely outclassed by Dukhovich, who was approved by the thread. I left an edit reason linking to the thread.
- Also the man who killed Kincaid's father, the preacher. The preacher immediately offered to let him steal whatever he wanted without fuss, but the man beat him to death anyway because "he was looking for someone to hurt." It's implied that he wanted to murder a black man in particular.
