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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ReynTime250 Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#102701: Dec 14th 2017 at 8:28:39 AM

Now that Disney owns Fox and therefore the X-Men which means they can be with the MCU does this mean we will have to change the heinous standard for both franchises?

Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#102702: Dec 14th 2017 at 8:31:15 AM

[tup]Donner.

[up] No. They are two distinct continuities.

edited 14th Dec '17 8:31:59 AM by Vampireandthen

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#102703: Dec 14th 2017 at 8:31:48 AM

@ ACW it’s actually such a painful scene too because for the five minutes Donner is shooting Hiro’s trap is so obvious.

NTG Since: Aug, 2014
#102704: Dec 14th 2017 at 9:06:31 AM

[tup]General Gerhard Donner [tdown]Mxy

As for Hitman: I would we should defiantly keep Wade. Absolution is the most story-driven game of the franchise and Wade does more than enough to surpass every other character from the game in heinousness. The only one that comes close is Dexter but it’s shown that he actually cares for his son and his (trophy) girlfriend.

Now if Zaydan had succeeded there would’ve be nation widen riots, which would’ve destabilized Morocco and killed a lot of people. And Zaydan’s plan to restore order after becoming president was to send in the tanks. There aren’t that many Hitman villains whose actions would’ve lead to a similar or worse body count. Even if we take resources into account.

[up][up][up]I believe that there’s a small chance that the Deadpool movie will become part of the MCU canon. It was a pretty successful movie and the fans love Ryan Reynold’s Deadpool.So if that happens we may have to judge Francis by the standards of the MCU. But we'll cross that bridge when it comes to it.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#102705: Dec 14th 2017 at 9:14:26 AM

[up][up][up][up]There two separate continuities for now. So we dont need to do anything just yet, now if they pull a Crisis On Infinite Earths Esq event and fuse the two timelines then we'll simply Grandfather in who we have like we did with D.C for Post crisis into the New 52 / DC Rebirth era.

edited 14th Dec '17 9:28:08 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#102706: Dec 14th 2017 at 9:41:54 AM

I've just got back from The Last Jide myself.

Bold, beautiful and blistering.

You can PM me if you desire but since I'm gonna get SO many, I'm just gonna make a copy pasta with as much as I can think to include. I'm also watching the film again on Saturday.

Needless to say, BB-8's entry is getting expanded. A LOT. Like, we may just replace the whole Star Wars page with BB-8. Hell, the whole CM page in general. Actually, scratch that, make the whole site dedicated to BB-8's vile tyranny. While we're on the subject, we should take the whole internet and STOP ME PLEASE MY SHIT JOKE STAND IS OUT OF CONTROL

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#102707: Dec 14th 2017 at 10:05:59 AM

Anyways, got some writeups for you all...

  • Legend of Lemnear: Lord Varohl, Champion of Gold and lord of the flying fortress Valkyras, is a vicious tyrant who seeks to brutally subjugate humanity for casting him out. Varohl leads his armies to slaughter and destroy all they can across the land, the total annihilation of Lemnear's village and all of its inhabitants merely one of the casualties of his campaign, while leaving cities he dominates in the care of sadistic generals like Vuan to do with as they please. To steal the power of Lemnear, Varohl kidnaps her brother Masshu, and when they turn the tables against him, Varohl elects to rain fire down upon the world and destroy it all out of spite.

  • Arawn: Engus, only blood brother of Arawn, eventually proves himself to be the worst of the four brothers. Already a conniving sadist who mocks his half-brother Math over his heritage and takes over the kingdom of the East by dishonorably assassinating its king and its consorts, Engus becomes a pedophilic despot and hedonist who leads non-stop orgies in his castle and brutalizes his subordinates. Engus is eventually tricked into seemingly dying at the hands of his other half-brother Kern and seemingly dying upon being plunged into the Cauldron – but upon absorbing the Cauldron's power, Engus becomes a living god who murders his brother and has his entire kingdom massacred. Drunk on power, Engus leads his armies to devastate all in their wake and sacrifice thousands of innocents to the Cauldron of Blood regardless of age, even murdering his own blood brother and parading his body around as a depraved trophy.

  • Spider-Man and Batman: The Joker, as true to his mainstream counterpart, is a theatrical sadist who contrasts Carnage's wanton bloodlust with concentrated, depraved flourish. Introducing himself in the comic by attempting to unleash a swarm of poisoned bats to drive all of Gotham to fatal insanity, Joker is eventually subdued and briefly controlled under the influence of a microship that suppresses his insanity. Once freed from the chip's influence by Carnage, Joker initially takes up Carnage on his offer of a partnership, intending to have hundreds of needy children around Gotham horribly killed by his poisoned “presents.” Once Carnage turns on Joker for his difference in opinion, Joker attempts to kill him and eventually resolves to release his insanity virus on Gotham anyways, solely to stick it to Carnage for invading on his turf.

  • Seven Swords: Fire-Wind is a brutal general and former Imperial torturer who takes the edict banning martial arts to engage in mass slaughter for profit. Fire-Wind has countless numbers of innocents slaughtered either for practicing or merely supporting martial arts, up to the elderly and the children, leading to entire villages of people put to the sword by his army. A ruthless abuser of his own subordinates in the meanwhile, Fire-Wind murders his own men for reasons stemming from failure to simply interrupting his private time, and takes glee in terrorizing and assaulting his Korean slave woman Green Pearl. When the noble swordsman Chu frees Green Pearl from Fire-Wind's torment, Fire-Wind attempts to have him ripped limb from limb by chains tied to horses right in front of his allies.

  • Batman/Spawn: War Devil: Croatoan is an ambitious demon in service to Satan who murders then assumes the identity of corporate leader Simon Vesper for his own ambitions. Responsible for damning one-hundred lives of a Roanoke colony to Hell centuries ago, Croatoan attempts to do the same to one-hundred thousand more lives across Gotham, slaughtering his own human proxy before cutting out the power all across Gotham and arising the dead to slaughter as they will across Gotham. Croatoan's ultimate intention is to lead in the apocalypse using the souls of those he's damned as his army, all for his own corner of Hell to rule over as reward.

  • Superman VS The Amazing Spider-Man: Lex Luthor himself proves to be the most evil version of the character ever seen in the Pre-Crisis continuity. Initially content with causing mayhem across Metropolis for the purpose of luring Superman out, Lex eventually allies with Doctor Octopus and teams up to ostensibly threaten the world with a weather machine. Kidnapping Lois Lane and Mary Jane as leverage and hypnotizing a tribesman to act as the unwilling, murderous guardian of his secret lair in the process, Lex finally reveals the absolute depth of his wickedness when he reveals he simply intends to use the weather machine to annihilate the entire planet as the culmination of his “black ambition,” gloating that even after his plan is sabotaged he's still doomed the Atlantic Coast to a tidal wave. Beholden to none of Lex Luthor's more honorable traits here, Lex ultimately attempts to destroy all humanity out of petty spite for never recognizing his genius, horrifying even Otto with how far he'll sink to hurt Superman.

  • Uncanny X-Men and the New Teen Titans: Darkseid himself, seeking to expand his cosmic empire, seeks the power of Jean Grey for his own ends. Having Deathstroke and Ravok the Ravager act as proxies down on Earth, Darkseid eventually rallies up both the X-Men and the Teen Titans – coldly vaporizing Ravok for failure with his Omega Beams right after – and uses their memories to painfully reawaken Jean Grey as the Dark Phoenix. With her power, Darkseid seeks to turn Earth into a second Apokolips, destroying most life on it, before repeating the process with every planet in the universe until he rules all.

  • To Welcome Oblivion:
    • Dr. Lilith Madison is a callous sociopath of a scientist with an utter disdain for any life other than her own. Obsessed with finding out the secret to life at any cost, Madison turns to murder in some desperate attempt to stimulate herself – the deliberate suffocation of an infant she is trusted to take care of just one example – before eventually finding out the existence of a Deep One's carcass in the Antarctic. Killing her own research team to use the carcass for her own ends, Madison allies with the Old Brotherhood and its leader Grallman to kidnap hundreds of innocents and forcibly implant them with organs from the Deep One to spread Eldritch Energy across the world, more often than not resulting in the painful deaths of those forced to bear the transplants. Causing a series of bombings that lead to over two-hundred-and-fifty deaths to cover the actions of the psychopathic Rhett Talbot, Madison eventually unleashes Talbot onto Rielington to slaughter and rape as he will to take care of the Seratin sisters and their ally Robin Lockwood. Ultimately, Madison betrays Grallman and tries to open a gate to the Outer Planes in her attempt to find the secret to existence, fully willing to let the denizens of the Outer Planes pour out on Earth and ravage humanity in the process.
    • Nyarlathotep is the ultimate architect of the plot's conflict and a wicked Outer God who delights in nothing more than madness and misery. As the herald of Azathoth, Nyarlathotep has plunged countless universes and trillions of lives into eternal agony within the grip of the Outer Planes, with entire planets and civilizations driven to destroy themselves under his influence. On Earth, Nyarlathotep arranges events like the Black Plague and the rise of Hitler for his own amusement and seamlessly arranges the events of the plot by setting up the rise of both Peter Grallman and Dr. Madison into their positions, the former by killing his young sister Marissa to drive Grallman to darkness. Arranging the opening of the Outer Gate while disguised as Madison's assistant Trepaly, Nyarlathotep eventually betrays both Grallman and Madison, torturing the former into his possessed slave and unleashing the populace of the Outer Planes onto Rielington. Finally cutting loose in the climax, Nyarlathotep slaughters thousands of people in the most creatively depraved ways he can think of — tricking an cafeteria's worth of children into cannibalize themselves and forcing hundreds of the Old Brotherhood's members to become either breeding fodder or food for the eldritch monsters he summons — attempts to plunge the entire universe into the Outer Planes, and finally gloats to Grallman as one last spiteful move that he'll resurrect Marissa and torture and rape her for centuries in Grallman's form to hurt the both of them. With a mile-long sadistic streak underscored by a psychopathic sense of humor, Nyarlathotep commits every atrocity he does purely to satisfy his sense of amusement, intent on one day betraying even the Outer Gods to torment the rest of the multiverse himself.

edited 14th Dec '17 10:06:15 AM by Scraggle

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#102708: Dec 14th 2017 at 10:17:13 AM

[up] Please add to the Drafts in the proper locations (feel free to switch the orders for the trees; I'll leave that to you, as I don't know the works enough).

Actually, I Lied. Should Nya go first since it's (he's? she's?) the Big Bad?

[down] Alright, cool.

edited 14th Dec '17 10:35:07 AM by ACW

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#102709: Dec 14th 2017 at 10:30:57 AM

[up] He. Doesn't matter the order.

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#102710: Dec 14th 2017 at 10:46:50 AM

All right then. Since the other two TWO candidates are up, here's Talbot. I'll re-arrange the tree in a bit.

The aforementioned Rhett Talbot is a sadistic supervillain and the Arch-Nemesis for Elara and Kaya Seratin. As a teenager, Talbot raped and molested several children while posing as a babysitter. After he was taken by the Old Brotherhood and experimented on, he used his newfound powers to murder his parents, and later conducted a series of massacres—one of which took place at a playground Kaya was playing at, where he cut off her arms and attempted to rape her—all for his own enjoyment. Several years later, Talbot goes after the Seratins again, where he murders several civilians and police officers in and around a restaurant. Talbot also participates in raping and killing members of the Brotherhood alongside the eldritch monsters in the breeding chamber, and when he's confronted by the Seratins again, he tries to kill them both. Even after Sera tells Talbot that Madison and Nyarlathotep are going to destroy the whole universe, Talbot coldly tells her that he doesn't care, moments before he tries to rape her.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#102711: Dec 14th 2017 at 11:07:49 AM

Hey guys. I’d like to suggest we change the page quote for Fan Works to one from Wrecker. Trust me, this quote really works better because of the sheer brutality and maliciousness, showing how evil Wrecker is. However, I am on my phone right now, so I will propose it later.

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#102712: Dec 14th 2017 at 11:19:40 AM

We don't need a quote switch.

Camberf Since: Jan, 2012
#102713: Dec 14th 2017 at 12:07:11 PM

Okay, here's my EP for The Evil Within 2, and how about some music to go along with it?

Background:

The Evil Within 2 takes place almost entirely within the STEM (virtual reality) town of Union, an idyllic town that became corrupted and turned into a nightmare hellscape. Sebastian Castellanos is sent in after learning that his daughter Lily was being used as a CORE for the simulated world by the sinister organization MOBIUS. Inside are the mostly-deceased or mutated citizens of Union, some MOBIUS operatives who were sent in first, and the subject of this EP, the Disc-One Final Boss Stefano Valentini.

Who is he/what does he do?

Stefano was originally a normal war photographer, but after losing an eye and capturing the brutal death of a person in an explosion on camera, he became obsessed with capturing the moment of death as an artist. He became a serial killer who murdered and mutilated fashion models to create his art. Eventually, he was taken in by MOBIUS, who were unaware of his psychopathy and, after judging him sane via psyche exams that Stefano was able to trick, they connected him to STEM to provide more artistic personalities to Union.

Inside Union, he was at some point contacted by the other primary antagonist in the game, Theodore Wallace, who gave Stefano power inside of Union in exchange for Stefano kidnapping Lily for Theodore's own purposes. Stefano successfully tracked down and kidnapped Lily, but decided not to turn her over to Theodore once he realized the power she was capable of, which he wanted for himself.

When Sebastian enters Union, which became a hellscape after Lily was removed as the CORE, he finds that Stefano now has certain 'superpowers', and had been killing off the MOBIUS operatives and literally freezing them in time at the moment of death, something he had been doing to his victims inside of Union to create his art. Stefano taunts Sebastian and tries to kill him multiple times. This leads to Sebastian destroying the one thing that Stefano cares about, his paintings, which enrages Stefano, leading to a confrontation at a theater.

At the theater, Sebastian finds that Stefano had rigged dozens of Union citizens with bags over their heads and explosive leashes. Despite Sebastian's attempts to stop him, Stefano detonates all of these leashes and freezes the whole audience mid-explosion. He muses to himself that he doesn't know how he'll top this.

Sebastian and Stefano then fight, and when Stefano is mortally wounded, he declares his own death to be his final masterpiece, and when Sebastian turns to leave, Stefano attempts to grab his camera to freeze Sebastian before getting shot in the head.

Does he meet the heinous standard of the work? Are there any other mitigating factors?

The Evil Within games have some other heinous villains, like Theodore Wallace, but Stefano still stands out. There are no other mitigating factors.

Conclusion:

Stefano Valentini could be the poster boy for the Mad Artist trope. He's like Sander Cohen only without the (mild) mitigating factors he had and with arguably a larger rap sheet. Easy [tup].

edited 14th Dec '17 12:55:59 PM by Camberf

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#102714: Dec 14th 2017 at 12:08:56 PM

Having seen a lets play of the game

Well deserved [tup] to Stefano

Kinda reminds of a male Rikako oryio

Also you missed this but a newspaper article shows that Stefano's first victim was his Childhood friend turned model, which adds to the sick factor

edited 14th Dec '17 12:40:48 PM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#102715: Dec 14th 2017 at 12:39:36 PM

[tup]Stefano.

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#102717: Dec 14th 2017 at 12:55:33 PM

Ah, wonderful. Finally I can [tup] Stefano. I hear there might be one more qualifier as well...

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#102718: Dec 14th 2017 at 12:57:36 PM

[tup] for Stefano Valentini.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#102719: Dec 14th 2017 at 1:00:23 PM

Yes to Stefano.

Also, looking at the Redwall monster page? I'd like to suggest a rewrite for Gulo:

  • Rakkety Tam: Gulo the Savage is an Ax-Crazy, cannibalistic wolverine who seeks to dominate the lands of ice and snow. Murdering his own father to seize control, Gulo finds the symbol of rulership, the 'Walking Stone' has been stolen by his brother and leads an army to murder his brother and recover the Walking Stone. Upon crossing the sea, Gulo goes on a killing spree, murdering and eating any luckless creatures who cross his path, including a group of squirrel performers whose heads he leaves as a macabre warning. Interrogating a tribe of river rats about the Walking Stone, Gulo refuses to believe several victims have no answers and brutally kills them when they try to 'lie' to him before killing and eating more, with even his own soldiers not safe from his insanity and fury. A sadistic brute, Gulo makes his entire existence revolve around killing, eating and dominating anything that comes within reach of his claw and remains one of the most terrifying creatures to ever strike at Redwall.

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#102720: Dec 14th 2017 at 1:05:10 PM

[tup] rewrite.

I'm inclined to [tup] Stefano, but I need more information about the heinous standard.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#102721: Dec 14th 2017 at 1:07:48 PM

To give you a clue. Stefano has the highest on-screen body count of any villain and stuff like strapping explosive leashes to people and killing countless people for his sculptures is done by no one.

edited 14th Dec '17 1:08:22 PM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#102723: Dec 14th 2017 at 1:13:48 PM

[tup] Stefano.

edited 14th Dec '17 1:14:00 PM by AustinDR

G-Editor Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#102724: Dec 14th 2017 at 1:15:22 PM

[tup] Stefano

Say what about Wallace also from this game and Ruvik from the first game do they count or not?

[down] do you want to EP Wallace to let the forum decide?

edited 14th Dec '17 1:25:26 PM by G-Editor

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#102725: Dec 14th 2017 at 1:23:28 PM

well Ruvik is a mind Rapist, he loves his sister deeply.

Wallace might count as well but im not 100 percent on him.

[up]I think somone more familiar with the first game should do that, to see how he compares to Ruvik. Considering they have a simlair MO of breaking somone via Mind Rape. Though Wallace has bigger goals of ruling and you could argue that everyone Wallace brainwashes and mutates into monsters that you kill is on him and his intent matters, so maybe thats enough.

Still Stefano is a much easier keep as he has the highest on-screen body count and sick MO done by no one else. So he stands out much more than his boss Wallace.

edited 14th Dec '17 1:48:04 PM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

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