During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Mxy
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Zaydan
Nay to Mxy.
Bad as he is, he's still an extradimensional being who's just...giving new things a try in odd ways and freely admits he might just choose to be a paragon of goodness to mix it up after.
Zayden and (sadly) to Myx as well... having not read the comic, I was all for him until the blurb on his Motive Rant. The fact he will spend just as much time doing good deeds to alleviate his boredom as nefarious ones is too jarring for me to vote any other way.
In love with an Uptown Girl
on Myx. The fact he admits he will eventually get bored and try being guilty sealed it for me
Yes to Mxyzptlk
Edit: 40(k)th EP, for the Emprah!
Just watched an 80s anime film and I think I found someone...
What's the work?
The 1989 film Venus Wars, based on the manga of the same name takes place on...where else? Venus. After a comet collides with the planet in 2003, giving it solar days and water. Taking place in the year 2089, long after humans colonized it. Currently, there's a war going on between two factions: the Ishtar and the Aprodia. Our hero, Hiro (heh, heh) lives in the Aprodia capital of Io. One day, while he's out racing bikes with his homies, Ishtarian forces invade the capital, forcing him, his ragtag bunch of misfits and intrepid reporter, Susan Sommers to stop the brutal oppression of the city.
Who is General Donner? What has he done?
General Gerhard Donner is A Nazi by Any Other Name, the dude who ordered the attack on Io and looks suspiciously like a Gundam villain. Unbothered by civilian casualties, Donner lets his forces bombard the city while the terrified populace flee in terror. After implanting himself as de facto head of the municipal government, Donner continues to violate human rights by forcing curfews and oppressive patrols on the people, all while forcing the government to put out propaganda about them welcoming Ishtarian rule. Becoming annoyed with civil unrest, Donner threatens the native authorities to begin cracking down on slights against his rule, saying if a counterattack from outside Aprohian forces occurs, he will level the entire capital and if they fail to adequately enforce his rule upon the civilians he will take them all back to Ishtar as slaves. We see how authoritative the police become when they barge into one of the main character's homes, assaulting and interrogating them for no reason before opening fire on Hiro and relentlessly pursuing him when he flees.
After Susan's lover is killed in a fight against Donner's forces, she makes her way to his office, under the pretense of an interview and tries to assassinate him. After she fails, Donner enjoys scaring her, firing off the gun into a statue before putting it to her head, smiling at her terror before revealing it's now empty. When Hiro and the Aprodian forces arrive to take back Io, Donner tries to make good on his threat, ordering his men to "leave nothing but rubble", while he goes to fight the oncoming assault. During the battle, Donner proves an utter Blood Knight, prioritizing killing enemy combatants above all else. Unfortunately, this gets the better of him when Hiro tricks him into firing at him while his bike is on a ramp, leading to the debris falling down and crushing the mad general.
Heinousness?
Easily sets it, miles ahead of anyone else in the movie.
Mitigating factors?
None, he's got a Knight Templar devotion of his nation but he's of the "smite things I hate" as opposed to the "blossom what I love" variety. Additionally, his attitude is only played to display his feelings of superiority.
Verdict
A keeper.
edited 13th Dec '17 11:29:03 PM by 43110
Goku Black
Madison & Donner
EDIT: Actually thinking it over Myx as his Motive Rant convinced me that he's to innocent and runs on Blue-and-Orange Morality to count.
edited 13th Dec '17 11:50:38 PM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
The Unknown
Mxy.
Donner.
Myx for being too much of a weirdo.
Madison & Donner
Myx
edited 14th Dec '17 3:21:48 AM by G-Editor
Goku Black
Oh hey guys Last Jedi released in SA today, so Iv now seen it. Pretty good and we have some suprsing stuff to discuss. So PM mefor anyone curious.
edited 14th Dec '17 4:45:15 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Donner. to Zayden and Mxy.
Since we're talking about the heinous standard for the Hitman franchise, do you all still think that Edward Wade from Hitman: Absolution counts? He's currently the only person from the franchise listed, so if we're discussing the heinous standard here he's worth mentioning. His standout crime is needlessly slaughtering a nun convent and orphanage on top of a laundry list of other Kick the Dog moments and generally being one of the most personally disgusting villains. Granted as far as villains go from the franchise, he is a relatively low level operative with a single retinue of guards with him.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I was actually one of the few people who voted against Wade counting for that reason.
General Gerhard Donner.
edited 14th Dec '17 6:37:55 AM by Tyk5919
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
"Unfortunately, this gets the better of him when Hiro tricks him into firing at him while his bike is on a ramp"
What a dumbass. Donner.
Lizzid people!
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Changing my vote to for Zaydn and sadly I have to give to Myx too
And I'll say to Donner
edited 14th Dec '17 7:27:24 AM by ElfenLiedFan90
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Wild Child
Donner.
Madison, Donner
Mxy
Love the profile pic, Austin. Great movie.
A while back, I found this on the Legacy of Kain character sheet under Hash'ak'gik.
- Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds: A person spending countless centuries imprisoned in a hell dimension that twists its inhabitants and inexorably makes them mad, banished there for defending himself against crusading oppressors who are ultimately serving a parasitic abomination, could be excused for being a bit angry when he comes out. Targeting the now-innocent generations of humans in addition to the vampires with The Device might be a result of rage carried over from the war of the ancients spurred by the demon realm's madness, as the humans sided with the ancient vampires in that war.
Been a while since I've played any LoK game, but this sounds like a valid Freudian Excuse.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Ah, now that is a detail I forgot/was unaware of. To be fair, though, I've only played Blood Omen 2 and Defiance in full, so ...
edited 14th Dec '17 8:01:33 AM by Stellarvore
Yeah, the tiny issue being he was a genocidal tyrant before that. The Hylden were evil, the vampires were manipulated and violent zealots.
edited 14th Dec '17 7:54:20 AM by Lightysnake
Goku Black
Yeah some fans give Hylden the Draco in Leather Pants treatment and forget that he was a genocidial monster Before he got sealed away.
This isn't a Omega situation where being sealed caused him to go insane and become evil as he was already pretty bad to begin with and simply become worse after his sealment.
edited 14th Dec '17 8:10:18 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lizzid people!
edited 14th Dec '17 8:05:22 AM by AustinDR
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I know we have a few cases of monsters who may have a Freudian Excuse...except they were assholes beforehand (Hela is just one recent example).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
And Whiteface. Though I guess that's not recent ...
edited 14th Dec '17 8:17:21 AM by Stellarvore
