During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Flavio
Yeah to Fitzsimmons... even Moriarty of all people still has standards.
Maestro and Riorr
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Scraggle: Got it. BTW, I've added the current Captain Planet tree to the Drafts; I already made a slight modification to Skumm. I favor actually keeping that line because, while not as grand as his other schemes, it shows what a dick Skumm is.
On that note (kind of), there are 32 so far this week, so any new ones (unless they're relatively short) go next week.
Maestro. Redeeming qualities aren't enough, and I'm PRETTY sure rape and sex slavery are unique to the novels. I gave Ravok the names of all 3 Venom Trilogy books. He can take Hobgoblin, I'll take the Predator's Smile villain and Strucker, and Overlord, didn't you say you wanted the villain from this book?
Roirr; except how much of the corrupting spirit was his influence, and how much was Vaal's?
edited 3rd Sep '17 3:14:14 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
to Maestro and Roirr.
I have to ask another question about that discussion of Freudian Excuses not justifying going too far.
I'm not going to propose this guy, as I haven't seen this movie in a while, but in Escape from Planet Earth, a mediocre animated movie, the main villain wants to blow up every alien planet in the galaxy because some of them acidentally killed his father. The aliens that did it even apologized and now work for him. Would that be an example of a Freudian Excuse not justifying your actions?
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
If he still cared about his father then it wouldn't matter if his excuse was valid. Also, the excuse does not need to justify, it has to explain their actions. I also can't remember how seriously that guy was portrayed.
to Maestro.
edited 3rd Sep '17 5:31:53 AM by TommyFresh
Per that discussion, I honestly have no idea what to make of Flavio Volpe. I'm inclined to lean on the side of caution and vote no, though - while his actions are spectacularly out of proportion to his FE even by this trope's standards, there is still an actual causal connection, and furthermore the sheer disproportionality itself kind of calls his sanity into question.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Actually, looking it up, it seems that Roirr possessed Vaal's body, so it seems like he wasn't really corrupted by Vaal. So, him.
BTW, for FMA, context makes that image of Bradley strangling his son VERY interesting.
edited 3rd Sep '17 6:16:37 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Koba's one of the best examples of an FE not being an adequate explanation: If he just focused on humans, then maybe it would be enough, but his treatment of his fellow apes, specifically when he murders Ash, is what really shows he's crossed the line.
@ ACW, well maybe, I have some other books on my list at the moment, I am thinking of taking a break from the Marvel novels and looking at some Star Trek novels. I would need to get that Nick Fury novel at a good price. Maybe do some quick candiates, try to look at some Canadian horror movies or something.
I am a bit wary of that novel though, by crazy coincidence the villain of the novel (who seems like a combonation of Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden) tries to lauch a 9/11 style plan, a year before 9/11 happened. It feels weird talking about such a villain.
edited 3rd Sep '17 8:15:13 AM by Overlord
If it's before 9/11, that would be more Harsher in Hindsight than being in poor taste, so I say go for it.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
BTW, I've got a wedding to attend in a few hours, so this week's batch will come tomorrow (it's a holiday in the states).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Emperor Tachyon of Ratchet & Clank should be listed as this. He committed genocide against a race that found him as an egg and raised him as their own despite being the last of an Always Chaotic Evil race similar to the Heartless. He enslaved an entire galaxy and ruled it with an iron fist, creating a cult around himself and killing or imprisoning people for the most minor crimes, and is known to have committed a few off-screen genocides, as his Establishing Character Moment hinted. He's not above invading and destroying foreign cities out of racism, given he attacked Metropolis, Kerwan, to murder Ratchet for being a lombax.
And that's not without going into the Wham Episode, where Tachyon brings back his evil race and opts to destroy the universe with them out of pure hatred, racism, and pride. His first action after said WE is to attack a city with genocidal intentions. And he spends the entire time in a sadist glee. When Ratchet calls him out on the lombax genocide, Tachyon shows no empathy for them, or the billions of lives he killed. He's purely selfish, hateful, racist, genocidal, and proud of his Cragmite heritage, and is willing to destroy all traces of lombax existence.
The honorable Prince of the Sea: Manaphy
Effortpost please. If you want I can give you a template.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Seems like he may run into Made of Evil issues.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
as someone who always lurks in this thread....i'm not sure if tachyon counts since most of the people here vote down him due to a redeeming quality i guess....iirc i saw one person who already ep tachyon and it's @g-editor
edited 3rd Sep '17 8:31:52 AM by ElfenLiedFan90
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
@ 93663 Polar Phantom, alright but I am in no hurry to tackle that one.
I have a question, how do we handle a PG spin off of a an R rated franchise? There as an actual Highlander cartoon series, set in a post apocalypse world (like most dubious Highlander media) where an immortal named Kortan rules the world.
The cartoon seems to be in canon with the first movie, with Kortan killing Connor Mac Leod and the violence is tonned down, more Gory Discretion Shots, but being set in a post apocalypse world means its not all puppies and rainbows. Also Kortan is about as subtle as a freight train, he looks as much as a super villain as possible:
edited 11th Feb '18 4:31:45 PM by Overlord
Tachyon has been voted down several times and there's no new arguments in this proposal now.
Yeah I lurked in the olden days too, and he was discussed and voted down. Apparently he was a Woobie.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
BTW, Maestro would be the 4th CM (at least) for Peter David. He also had Novel!Doom (well, more or less), Novel!David Banner, and Novel!Sentinel Prime.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Well Peter David created the original Maestro from the comics and created Spider-Man 2099 which featured vile villains like Vulture 2099.
I think Peter David is a more subtle writer then say Mark Millar, so pure evil villains are just a tool in his tool box, rather then a default character when he can't come up something else. Peter David wrote the original Sin Eater story, which was pretty dark and featured a crazed serial killer, but Sin Eater was almost pitiable, having been driven mad by an super solider serum knock off.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sin Eater...wasn't that the one where Eddie Brock got discredited and so grew to hate Peter Parker? Incidentally, besides the possible Freudian Excuse, it'd be damn hard for any Serial Killer in Spidey to measure up to Carnage.
BTW, for Novel!Maestro, why does he wanna wipe everyone out anyway?
edited 3rd Sep '17 9:23:10 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts