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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

erazor0707 The Unknown Unknown from The Infinitude of Meh Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
The Unknown Unknown
#88276: Jun 29th 2017 at 6:38:58 AM

[tup] Red King, Mickie, Eleventhree and Polly, Colonel Fedenia, Munkar, Jared-Syn, and Baal.

edited 29th Jun '17 6:39:27 AM by erazor0707

A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#88277: Jun 29th 2017 at 6:40:39 AM

Yeah to Scraggle's examples.

As a note, would anyone mind if I did a proposal from the latest Highlander comic that ended a week prior? I doubt I'd be spoiling anything there.

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#88278: Jun 29th 2017 at 6:54:40 AM

I'm fine with that.

BTW, is Haigus still a CM, or is he just one of Red King's servants?

edited 29th Jun '17 6:55:07 AM by ACW

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#88279: Jun 29th 2017 at 6:58:08 AM

ACW?

Every. Third. Post. I make is some sort of inane, pointless question or comment. Don't you think I would've mentioned this if it did happen? Did you not read my original EP for Haigus when he went up and you asked the same thing?

I am TIRED of this. Every single time you get corrected on it, you respond with some attempt to be jokesy, and then lapse right back into it. Either read the work, have a real point of contention, or say nothing about it because not everything needs to be you making a comment.

Stop it. For good this time. I am not answering that question.

edited 29th Jun '17 7:01:18 AM by Lightysnake

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#88280: Jun 29th 2017 at 7:02:19 AM

Alright, as an addendum to this, ACW... particularly for the breed of "is this character still a CM?" in the wake of a new EP or development or so and so, assume they still are unless explicitly clarified otherwise. That should remove a lot of the fuss with that.

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#88281: Jun 29th 2017 at 7:06:18 AM

[up] I will do that. That's a good rule of thumb.

[up][up] And I checked; I don't think I DID ask that for Haigus's original effortpost.

[down] Fair point. I'll abide by Scraggle's rule of thumb.

edited 29th Jun '17 7:16:17 AM by ACW

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#88282: Jun 29th 2017 at 7:15:46 AM

It was answered regardless then or later. Did I say ANYTHING to imply that it would need to be redressed?

UtterKoala Since: Mar, 2017
#88283: Jun 29th 2017 at 7:38:58 AM

For shows with CM's that I wasn't expecting, I'll have to go with Gravity Falls. I was really not expecting Bill to make the cut.

For CM's that I love to hate, The Joker of course! Take your pick to which incarnation I'm talking about.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#88284: Jun 29th 2017 at 8:00:34 AM

Alright, I'm gonna get my big load up and then pass out. I'm working on an hour of sleep (though as a side note... I think this is my biggest writeup post yet).

  • SWAT Kats: Dr. Viper was once Elrod Purvis, a greedy scientist who's plan to sell the Viper Mutagen to the highest bidder ended with his supposed death and subsequent mutation into the evil Viper. In his schemes to destroy Megakat City and replace it with a festering “Megaswamp City,” Viper regularly attempts to mutate and murder all he can through his chemical weapons and monsters, painfully transforming one-shot villain Morbulus into a mindless bacteria creature that he looses on Megakat City, leading to dozens of deaths – including that of Viper's former colleague Zyme – and, upon being thwarted at that, attempts to drown the entire city in toxic spores, teams up with the nefarious Dark Kat, and finally floods the city with mutative chemicals in a bid to mutate everyone within the city. Regularly murdering innocents in his attempted conquest and seeing beauty only in the fetid and festering, Dr. Viper was about as remorselessly evil as his sinister appearance would suggest.

  • World Gone Wild: Father Derek Abernathy is a charismatic cult leader roaming the remains of the Earth to form a cult of personality for himself. His brutality only preceded by his shallow charm, Derek goes from community to community and decimates them all, raping the women and molding the children into his mindless followers. Derek cheerfully has his cult murder their way through Lost Wells whilst nonchalantly sipping a glass of water, molesting a women's young daughter before kidnapping, raping, and ultimately murdering the mother after she resists him, and fully intends to butcher the rest of the populace after he's warded off. Derek's methods of directly punishing those he perceives as enemies are even worse, as Derek castrates and leaves an unfortunate mercenary who tries to deal with him tied up to slowly die of exposure in the desert. A narcissistic sociopath, Derek lives purely to slather his own ego with praise and glory whilst savagely murdering all those who don't worship him.

  • Metalstorm: The Destruction of Jared-Syn: The titular Jared-Syn and his cold cyborg son Baal are two intergalatic criminals who come to the planet of Lemuria to establish themselves as complete rulers. Manipulating the native Cyclopean people into waging a "holy war" against the humans of the planet, Jared-Syn and Baal drain the souls of hundreds of people, either killing them personally or having their Cyclopean followers slaughter them, and keep them locked within a crystal in perpetual agony. Jared-Syn's rhetoric about bringing glory back to the Cyclopeans is a ruse only meant to secure the Cyclopeans' loyalty before he enslaves them, and even the eventual death of Baal fails to upset him much.

  • Lord Helspont of the Daemonites is one of the most powerful and wicked of his kind. Stationed on Earth centuries ago, Helspont possessed the body of an Acuran and, in the 1970s, convinced a man named Slaughterhouse Smith into helping him unleash a total nuclear holocaust among the planet to decimate humanity, having him slaughter a military base to procure the nukes — before aiming the first at New York City and trying to force Smith to watch as his only friends and family were blown from the earth. From there onward, Helspont made numerous attempts to eradicate all life on the planet or otherwise subject them, attempting to draw in his race through the "Reunification" to use all life as body suits for the Daemonites, and attempting to rewrite history itself to the Daemonites' advantage. A steadfast enemy of the WildC.A.T.S. and especially of the Kherubim Mr. Majestic, Helspont's attempt to kill them, in the skin of corrupt CEO James Wyvern, had him fuse his soldiers into one horrible abomination to be loosed on his enemies, and attempted to have the Youngbloods and the WildC.A.T.S. wipe each other out to make his own goals easier. Even when forced to ally with Mr. Majestic upon the invasion of Javen and his Kheran minions, Helspont still betrayed Majestic and tried to steal the power of the ancient Planet Shaper Javen sought to reshape the planet in his own image and wipe out all life, turning down Majestic's offer of mutual peace out of sheer hatred. Driven by undying, genocidal spite towards the Kherubim and the human life he sees as inferior, and with countless acts of murder and torture on his hands, Helspont remained one of the most persevering and deadly foes within the Wildstorm universe for very good reason.

  • The Authority: Regis Slzfi, warmongering dictator of the alternate Earth named Sliding Albion, earns the distinctive honor of being one of the most astonishingly vile villains to ever fight against the Authority. A member of the Blue which colonized Sliding Albion centuries ago, Regis distinguishes himself from even the other Blues by virtue of his aggression and sadism, poisoning the entire planet through repeated campaigns of war and overuse of chemical weapons that lead to countless lives lost. When Regis is tasked to repopulate the dying Sicilian-Blues – poisoned by Regis' own insane conquest – Regis starts using entire countries as rape camps, invading highly populated countries like China and totally butchering the male populations to use the entirety of the females as rape fodder. Regis' pettiness and arrogance leads him to attempt to murder his own son Lorenzo and his wife when they wed, vowing to slaughter the entire city and decorate it with the skinned faces of its populace, and tricking a man into slaughtering an entire gathering of people before crushing the man's head and devouring his children due to an offhand insult the man makes. To complete his task of repopulation, Regis has his forces assault the main Earth with the intention to turn the entire planet into a rape camp, and roars to Midnighter whilst beating him into a bloody pulp that he's butchered and raped countless people over half a millennium. Egotistical and xenophobic among a laundry list of other traits and unconcerned even with the survival of his own people so long as he can glory in his own victories, Regis is one of the singular most depraved villains to ever grace the Crapsack World he inhabits.

  • Cinder and Ashe: The despicable Lacey is a rogue CIA agent and a boorish, racist psychopath with no feeling towards anyone or anything sans contempt. Operating as The Fagin during his time as Saigon, Lacey takes in a young Cinder Dubois as his personal thief and raises her under cruel abuse, eventually driving his own girlfriend to suicide and raping a thirteen-year-old Cinder himself in a bout of drunken fury. Ten years later, Lacey pursues a job to ruin the life of a farmer named Wilson connected to the life of his client, Harrison Wayne, purely to get at the now-grown Cinder. Poisoning Wilson's wife and wildstock before kidnapping his daughter Jennifer, Lacey wreaks vast swaths of murder and racks up well over a dozen bodies, connected to his target or not, murdering Jennifer himself alongside an entire gang of people and shooting Wilson himself at Jennifer's funeral. Lacey murders Wayne himself in his attempt to kill Cinder, living and dying an unrepentant, sneering scumbag with not one remotely humane attribute about him.

  • Seekers of the Weird:
    • Despoina is a vile, immortal sorceress who serves as the dark mistress and head servant of the evil Reaper King. Forming the Society of Shadows to worship the Reaper King, Despoina dedicates herself to freeing him and allowing him to desolate the entire planet so she and the Society can rule over the remainder. Motivating the two children destined to open the Coffin Clock the Reaper King in sealed in by kidnapping their parents and threatening to murder them, Despoina has their uncle Roland supposedly play both them and the Wardens, before opting to have his spine torn out in response to his betrayal. A sadist by nature, Despoina even allows the Wardens to briefly take the Coffin Clock solely so she can crush their hope later and have the Reaper King wipe them all out.
    • The Reaper King himself is an ancient eldritch horror and the strongest reaper in existence, a being dedicated only to enshrouding the Earth in shadow and killing all that lives. Previously rampaging across the Earth and causing the Black Plague in the process, killing a third of Europe's population, the Reaper King has Despoina and her servants dedicate centuries of their time to freeing him – only to spitefully strip them all of their immortality and condemn them to die with the rest of the world once he's finally released.

  • Prisoner of Ice: Ernst Dietrich, the psychotic commander of the Schlossandler base, is both a ruthless Nazi and a would-be servant of the Great Old Ones. Seeking to possess the titular Prisoners of Ice and masterminding a plot to steal the Necronomicon, Dietrich has Lt. Ryan and his allies stalked, eventually capturing them himself. Subjecting Ryan's friends to torture and gleefully informing him his compatriot Diane is close to bending, Dietrich eventually reveals a machine capable of tearing through time and space itself, Dietrich tests it out by vaporizing a US spy on his premises. Dietrich finally reveals his intentions to summon the Great Old Ones themselves to Earth and reduce all of humanity to their slaves as he reigns as a god among mortal men, condemning everyone, his own men included, to die within Schlossandler. Even being hurled through time doesn't stop him, as Dietrich is last seen becoming the game's analogue to Nyarlathotep himself and enslaving the Aymaras in his bid to start his plan all over again.

  • Deathstalker: The evil sorcerer Munkar overthrows King Tulak to gain total control of the land he reigns over, inducting Tulak's daughter Codille into his personal harem of sex slaves and casting out Tulak. To eliminate any potential challengers to his regime, Munkar hosts a tournament to draw in the strongest warriors of the land to his domain in the guise of making the last survivor his heir, securing their trust by allowing them to rape and kill at their own whim. Munkar's true intention is to simply have all the warriors slaughter each other before killing the survivor himself so he can rule unopposed as an evil tyrant.

  • The Punisher: One-shot villain Colonel Herbert Fedenia carves a uniquely depraved niche for himself even in spite of his status as a minor villain. A seemingly upstanding man who runs St. Paradine's, a military school for children, Fedenia's true nature is revealed when Frank discovers Fedenia is a child pornographer who uses his unwilling cadets as his subjects, drugging them and having them brutalized on top of routinely having them raped. When one of the young cadets refuses to shoot Frank when he's ordered too, Fedenia simply attempts to murder the child himself.

edited 29th Jun '17 8:14:54 AM by Scraggle

Ravok Caesar Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Caesar
#88285: Jun 29th 2017 at 8:01:42 AM

'Yes' to the Jared Syn duo and the kiddie porn Punisher baddie. Jeebus.

Anywho, here's Bullseye, so let's settle this once and for all.

Who is he?

"Bullseye", real name Shelton Pendergrass (God help you if you say the name in his hearing range) is a deranged Psycho for Hire with Dissonant Serenity and Cloud Cuckoo Lander coming out the wazoo.

What has he done?

Our introduction to Bullseye comes in a flashback, where we see he has been hired to kill a man (Exact reasons unknown), with saud man having hired bodyguards to protect him.

Bullseye proceeds to show up at his front door dressed as a pizza guy, which fools no one as he is stripped, searched, and taken inside the building to be questioned and, if possible, bought off.

Proclaiming he has to use the little assassin's room, Bullseye does indeed have a bowel movement.....including a pistol he had.....inserted...which he then uses to gun down all of his target's bodyguards.

Cornering the man, Bullseye states he truly is the greatest assassin known, and could kill the man with a TOOTHPICK, and illustrates this by flicking a toothpick at the dude.....at which point the toothpick just bounces off the scared target.

Bullseye: "What are you, an idiot? I can't kill you with a toothpick! Of course, I can kill you with this." Bang

Summarily executing the schmuck then sawing his head off to present to his employer, Bullseye gets a call from mob boss Rigoletto, demanding he come in and kill the infamous vigilante known as the Punisher.

Informing Rigoletto he'd come eventually, Bullseye then spent weeks following Rigolettoto see if he was on the up and up, during which time Rigoletto's bodyguard, the hulking brute known as Wilson Fisk, kills Rigoletto and assumes command of the New York mob as the Kingpin of Crime.

Approaching Fisk, Bullseye informs him he will find and kill the Punisher, Frank Castle, for him, proclaiming he's REALLY good at his job. He once hunted down an eskimo across the Arctic, then, after finding him weeks later, killed him with nothing but his own frozen feces. Who hired him for such a psychotic endeavor? Oh, no one. That was just for giggles.

As he is hired by Fisk, Bullseye first tries an average attempt on Castle's life by sniping at him, but this unsurprisingly fails.

Later seen interrogating a black market weapons dealer, Bullseye breaks both the man's legs with a baseball bat, completely ignoring the man's constant claims that he can't give Bullseye what he wants, until Bullseye finally beats the man's head in with the bat.

Meanwhile, Fisk has this mysterious assassin investigated, learning that his real name is Shelton Pendergrass, that he was a military lawyer, and that he one day just dropped everything and became a killer for hire, and since then, he has never failed a job.

During his investigations, Fisk comes across the startling rapsheet of Bullseye, notably an instance where a school bus of kids witnessed one of his murders. Bullseye proceeded to gas the entire school they attended, killing everyone inside. When the town tried to have a huge funeral for all of the kids, Bullseye rigged the coffins with bombs that promptly blew the dozens present to smithereens.

Next, Bullseye decides that to find and kill Castle, he must "become" him, and thus, Bullseye begins sleeping in Castle's former safehouse, camping out at his wife's gravesite, and even dressing like him.

Eventually tracking down the doctor who adminsters medical treatment to Castle when he is injured, Bullseye brutally mutilates and dismembers the man before stabbing him to death.

Learning that Castle's crusade began when his wife and two children were shot and killed in the middle of a park, Bullseye decides to further become Castle...

Waltzing up to a suburban home, comprised of a young couple and their two children, Bullseye shoots the father between the eyes, then ties up the mother and kids until the next morning.

HEAVILY implying he raped the mother throughout the night ("Ah, I should have tried to married life years ago! It's great! Especially the SEX!"), Bullseye, acting as the father of the house, states he's taking his "family" to a trip in the park.

Once there, Bullseye gives the cue for several gunmen he hired to come out and gun down the woman and children, hoping for it to reveal to Bullseye how Castle felt when his family died.

Getting NOTHING from the situation, Bullseye proclaims they'll TRY. AGAIN.

Next time we see our friendly assassin, he is being ranted at by an outraged Fisk, who calls Bullseye out for killing four families in total within the week, demanding to know how much of a "depraved fucking maniac" he is.

Calmly convincing Fisk to watch his tone, as he still needs him, Bullseye later gets into a duel with Castle, narrowly escaping, but not before asking the old Punisher what his favorite color is.....wait wut.

Moving on from THAT, Bullseye KINDA goes off the deep end, as he can't understand how Castle works and what exactly turned him into a killing machine, leading Fisk, tired of Bullseye's BS, ordering him to be killed.

Still pondering the nature of Castle, Bullseye easily and brutally murders the three goons Fisl sent to kill him, before fighting Fisk himself.

Moments later, Bullseye gets an epiphany, believing he's finally figured Castle out, and just in time, too. As Castle has shown up to Fisk's lair to kill every crook in sight.

Switching right back to his old self, Bullseye scolds Fisk into dropping their current duel to prepare for Castle, until finally, Bullseye and Castle get into a final duel.

As they fight, Bullseye gleefully mocks Castle about his family's death and his lot in life, all while using Fisk's own mooks as human shields and the like, and this all culminates in Bullseye revealing what he believes to be the truth about Castle: That he WANTED his family dead.

This hits home for Castle, as he freezes up, and unfortunately, Fisk takes the opportunity to open fire on both Castle AND Bullseye, ultimately killing Bullseye and leaving Castle severely wounded, but able to slip away.

Thus ends Shelt-GAK!

Er, I mean Bullseye.

Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?

Ok, so....Bullseye is a WEIRD man. Like, one of the weirdest, yet darkly hilarious villains out there, rivaling the Joker and Bill Cipher in sheer outrageous villainy rivaled only by his hilarious reactions to the stuff.

Bullseye will be joyously reminiscing how he slaughtered 4 families one moment, asking Castle what his favorite color is the next. He'll talk about why he has a bullseye tattoed on his forehead, then shift to how he killed an eskimo with his own frozen feces in a split second, taking sick glee in just plain screwing with people. Bullseye is a chaotic psycho who just enjoys horrifying and making people uncomfortable as much as possible.

All this leading up to his ONE potential mitigating factor.....his dialogue with Fisk's wife, Vanessa.

Vanessa has recently attempted to kill Fisk for allowing their son to die, and while this failed, she swears holy revenge on him. Bullseye is then seen approaching her, and we get this bit of dialogue:

Vanessa: If you're here to kill me, I promise you I won't go quietly.

Bullseye: Relax Mrs, Fisk I'm not going to hurt you. Not unless someone pays me to. I know who you are and what you've been through, I know that you tried to kill your husband and that you're probably already planning to try again. As someone who kills people for a living, I just wanted to offer you a little piece of advice. Walk Away. Now. And never look back. Forget you ever knew Wilson Fisk. Forget you ever had a son. Let it all go. Go live another life, while you still can. Leave murder to the professionals.

Vanessa: Fuck you and your threats.

Bullseye: That wasn't a threat. (whispering to himself) How come nobody understands threats anymore? (Back to normal now) You know what'll happen, if you keep chasing after your husband? Maybe you'll succeed. Maybe you'll kill him. Shoot him and see him fall over and shit himself and bleed out. Poison his food and watch him cough up blood foam and chunks of stomach, blow him up and see all the gooey inside bits of him explode all over creation. You might stand over him the day he dies and feel happy. Feel glad you did it. You might even laugh, long and hard. But you know what happens then? Then you get the dreams. The dreams and the sweats. And next thing you know you can't look at someone without imagining them in pain. Without hearing their screams. It gets so you can't have sex without feeling like your fucking a corpse. You start to see people as dead little puppets. Dancing on strings. You see all the strings, and how to pull them, and how to cut them. (Rambling maniacally now) And you wanna cry sometimes but someone might see you so you turn off all the lights and you try to cry but you can't, and your disgusted and wanna hurt yourself so you get a knife and you're gonna slit your wrist. But next thing you know you're stabbing someone and you don't even know who they are or why but you just keep doing it and doing it and doing it and doing it until there's blood and guts all over everything, you know? Do you understand what I'm talking about?

Vanessa: (Completely horrified and confused) No... No, I don't...

Bullseye: (Breaks into a creepy smile, grabs her shoulders, and cheerily states) I'm glad we had this talk. (Walks off, leaving Vanessa stunned)

Now, upon my first reading of this a while back, I took it as Bullseye, in his own creepy way, actually trying to warn Vanessa of what happens when you kill someone.....but, upon reread? I'm HIGHLY skeptical of this interpretation.

Bullseye is a depraved, sadistic lunatic who enjoys nothing more than screwing with and hurting others. He changes his entire personality NUMEROUS times throughout the story JUST to scare or hurt someone for giggles.

Now, I'm not saying it's a sure thing, and it could very well be genuine, but....when one compares the rest of Bullseye's character, that of a psycho who acts however he needs to to creep someone out all while showing no remorse or anything for his crimes, this can and will come up to some as just one of his out-of-character, Cloud Cuckoo Lander moments utilized just to utterly screw with someone, in this case Vanessa, as he steers the conversation with her from "Yo, maybe stop before you become a killer" straight into "KILLING'S FUN, BUT IT CAN REEEEEAAAAALLY JACK YOU UP! HEHEHEHEHE!"

Honestly, I'm having a VERY hard time reconciling this as genuine. It's just this really creepy, mind screwy scene, which MAX!Bullseye is infamous for, that ultimately does nothing but horrify Vanessa, which leads Bullseye to crack a smile at her obvious discomfort, completrly ignore her horror, and cheerfully walk off in good spirits at her shock.

Heinousness?

Good lawdy worst in-story alongside Fism. Fisk is a monster with a hellton of murders, and even a gang rape or two, on his hands, but he is the literal Kingpin of Crime, with all the resources that entails. Bullseye's just a dude with a funny tattoo and a love of violence, yet he slaughters 4 families of four (Again heavy emphasis on raping the wives), kills a bunch of innocent bystanders otherwise, and, despite being offscreen, gets a BUNCH if extremely descriptive crimes that, considering his rapsheet, definitely count toward his heinousness, with the big one here being his gassing of a school then bombing of the funeral.

Final Verdict?

Ehhhhhhh.....I'm honestly leaning Keep at this very moment. Bullseye's rhetoric to Vanessa comes across a Bait the Dog more than anything, as he turns a piece of "friendly advice" into a freaking horror show story that quite obviously doesn't apply to him given his.....eccentricities ('Cough' Sadist 'Cough') and given that a major part of Bullseye's character is playing a part just to screw with someone, I find that the chances of him ACTUALLY trying to genuinely help Vanessa are....well, slim-to-none.

But, I can easily see this being hella divisive, and won't be at all suprised if he gets voted down, so VOTE AWAY!

WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
MahStache from Old Jersey, not the bad new one Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#88286: Jun 29th 2017 at 8:22:10 AM

MAX!Bullseye sounds like a keep... that one scene seems like a Bait the Dog. Resources are important to take into consideration as well.

Oh also, on another note, I'd like to reserve discussion for the Kirby 2018 Switch game.

FriedWarthog Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#88287: Jun 29th 2017 at 8:27:32 AM

Yeah, you know what? I'm all for keeping Bullseye now. Thanks to having context, his moment with Vanessa really does come off as him screwing around with her.

OccasionalExister Since: Jul, 2012
#88288: Jun 29th 2017 at 8:32:39 AM

I've never read the MAX version of Punisher, and in this case I don't know if that's a good thing or bad thing. On the one hand, I guess I'm as unbiased as I can possibly be, having no feelings about this character one way or the other, but on the other, I lack an understanding of the character that comes from reading the work in its entirety. That being said, by reading this one scene, I'd err on the side of caution and vote down on MAX Bullseye.

My interpretation of that scene is that Bullseye is trying to help Vanessa in his own way, that he's talking about himself while trying to talk Vanessa away from revenge, and that it's a moment of lucidity where he admits that he knows what kind of monster he is but feels powerless to change. His ramblings are too in-depth for him to just be spouting out nonsense, it sounds like things he's personally thought and felt but never admitted to anyone before.

In particular, the line, "And you wanna cry sometimes but someone might see you so you turn off all the lights and you try to cry but you can't, and your disgusted and wanna hurt yourself so you get a knife and you're gonna slit your wrist. But next thing you know you're stabbing someone and you don't even know who they are or why but you just keep doing it and doing it and doing it and doing it until there's blood and guts all over everything, you know?" That sounds like someone who realizes he's insane and on some level feels remorse, but his insanity is too strong to let him stop.

Also, the, "Glad we had this talk," does seem to be an attempt to unnerve her, but again that's kind of the entire point of the speech, to scare her off the idea of becoming a killer. She doesn't know what he's talking about and he's glad she doesn't know and wants to keep her from knowing. Plus, no matter how you look at the scene, at no point does he invalidate his ramblings by saying anything to the effect of, "Eh fuck it, who am I kidding, killing's awesome! Let's do it right now!" No matter how I look at the scene, it seems like a genuine Pet the Dog moment to prevent Vanessa from becoming a monster like him.

edited 29th Jun '17 8:35:44 AM by OccasionalExister

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#88289: Jun 29th 2017 at 8:35:20 AM

Unfortunately, I'm inclined to believe with OE.

There's a bizarre...sort of earnestness to Bullseye at this point, too, where he slips further into madness in his attempts to get into Frank's head.

ThePest179 Since: Jul, 2015
#88290: Jun 29th 2017 at 8:44:01 AM

I think I'll go with an [tup] for Bullseye.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#88291: Jun 29th 2017 at 8:49:16 AM

I think it is the same kind of thing like Mr Blonde tipping the waitress or not ratting - whims. Combined with a huge amound of emotional manipulation/cruelty.

I vote [tup]

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
erazor0707 The Unknown Unknown from The Infinitude of Meh Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
The Unknown Unknown
#88292: Jun 29th 2017 at 8:49:28 AM

Count me a permanent abstain for Bullseye. That's way too ambiguous of a scene for me to make a call on.

A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#88293: Jun 29th 2017 at 8:56:10 AM

Alright, a few things:

Is there now consensus to cut Haguro Dou and MAX!Kingpin?

As for MAX!Bullseye, I'll abstain, but I'm leaning towards cut.

As for the snuff film trio, Polly's an easy yes, eleventhreee BARELY has enough personality but still counts, but I'm leaning [tdown] on Mickey. He DOES seem to miss Polly (if he didn't care for her, would he have a picture of her in his office?). Here's the scene.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#88294: Jun 29th 2017 at 8:56:39 AM

Going to have to [tdown] Bullseye, his monologue seems a bit too "raw" for me to take it as trying to screw with her.

He gives a very in-depth analysis of what her revenge would bring her in his own way and he strikes me as being too genuine with it for it to not be a Pet the Dog moment.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#88296: Jun 29th 2017 at 9:12:24 AM

I'm gonna abstain on Max!Bullseye.

It's so earnest... but he's just such a douche I really can't tell if it's genuine or not.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#88297: Jun 29th 2017 at 9:12:24 AM

Wait, why the hell would we cut Haguro Dou?

TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#88298: Jun 29th 2017 at 9:18:29 AM

I'm gonna have to stick with my initial [tdown] on Bullseye. While it does sound ambiguous, the way that he talks seems too genuine to just be an attempt to mess with her.

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#88299: Jun 29th 2017 at 9:38:16 AM

[up][up] Whoops, I have NO idea where that came from. I meant Kuroto Dan.

edited 29th Jun '17 9:39:32 AM by ACW

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Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#88300: Jun 29th 2017 at 9:46:34 AM

Oh and btw, since it was renewed for a 5th season, I went ahead and reserved the effort post for Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. again.

edited 29th Jun '17 9:46:53 AM by Forenperser

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