Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

If something has ended or is cut short, the villain's arc is considered over and can be proposed.

If there's sufficient evidence that a character did something, I don't think it needs to be on screen, but I don't know how many agree with me.

Holy near-6700 word effortpost (not including the Kai stuff)!

Proof Kai's a CM...Two Princes is an awesome song!

About the Steely Dan thing I would say that torturing a young girl and then attempting to kill her in an extremely brutal way while laughing about it seemingly enjoying it and doing it because he's a coward and for cheap sicks is pretty vile. That's not even getting into the other hideous shit he does. YMMV easily qualifies for this villain in particular for sure.

Okay, after skimming Cade's effortpost, he seems to meet the heinous standard just fine, but his Freudian Excuse seems quite tragic.

Yeah but my argument is that he goes above and beyond the point of sympathy in his subsequent appearances, mainly that he's going after innocent souls for damnation and he's not even doing it out of revenge, he just wants everyone to suffer.

Basically the same reason Ardyn's votes switched from no to yes. Since I watched the final season, I'll give Cade a .

I don't watch the show, so I won't vote no, but I'm too hesitant to vote yes. I'll abstain.

Yea to Cade

I just watched the trailer for the upcoming patch 7.2 for World of Warcraft, and I really hope Blizzard doesn't wind up redeeming Kil'Jaeden. I will lose what little respect I had left for their writing abilities. Regardless, Kil'Jaeden is set up to die in this patch as a raid boss so his story will finally be concluded and his entry will have to go through a final revision.

Cade

Alright it's been two weeks since Kong Skull Island aired. Sadly, no one counts. The sole human antagonist fails the heinous standard and has redeeming qualities.

Agreed. The fact is that Packard, though he gets radical and extreme by the end of the movie, is mostly painted in a very sympathetic light to the point that you almost don't see him as a villain. He's also frustrated about the way the Vietnam War turned out because of how empty and unfulfilled it left him and his motivation for going after Kong is that he killed his men when they first got to the island (only because they were dropping bombs as a test). Packard is portrayed as being very human and it clearly shows how in his mind, he believes he's justified in wanting to kill Kong and though Kong is set up to be more in the right, it is very easy to see Packard's side and not dismiss it at all.

Also, I...actually kinda loved this movie. It was a lot of fun.

Cade, it sounds like his Freudian Excuse doesn't have much relevance by the end.

Cade

@79659

Unlikely, the writing quality isn't too good but only villains Blizzard have really devoted extreme efforts to redeeming were Grom, Kerrigan, and Illidan(and the case with Illidan it was the fans demanding he get a better redemptive story arc. The problem was that Xe'Ra wasn't particular likable catalyst for said arc) and Sargeras came off as more sympathetic than Kil'Jaeden in the trailer alone, which infers that Sargeras was still committed to destroying the true villains of the setting, but Kil'Jaeden just wants to destroy Azeroth or prove himself. But we'll save the discussion for two weeks from when the raid opens.

to Cade and Packard

edited 24th Mar '17 1:13:38 PM by xie323

On the subject of Jo Jo, I just got done watching Diamond is Unbreakable, and after some searching, I'm surprised Yoshikage Kira wasn't at least suggested.

Who Is He? Yoshikage Kira is the Big Bad of the fourth part of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, Diamond is Unbreakable. Yoshikage is seemingly just an ordinary man, but he moonlights as a serial killer that has been haunting Morioh for over 15 years.

What Has He Done? Before the story began, he murdered a girl named Reimi, her dog Arnold, and her parents while they were babysitting a four-year-old Rohan. In between then, he discovered his Stand, Killer Queen, which gives him the ability to blow people to ashes. He often used this ability to kill women, but saved their hands because of a hand fetish he has. One day, a middle school student named Shigekiyo takes a sandwich bag, believing it to be his, unaware that Yoshikage had left his most recent victim's hand in it. When Shigekiyo discovers it, Yoshikage subjects him to a slow, horrible death with Killer Queen's powers. However, Shigekiyo had managed to take a button from his suit off, which allowed Jotaro to track down the tailor that made it. However, Yoshikage kills the tailor before they could learn anything, wounds Jotaro, and brutally beats Koichi to near-death. After getting exposed as a killer, he forces Aya to use her Stand ability to help him Kill and Replace an innocent man named Kosaku Kawajiri before killing her next. To cover his tracks, he starts living with the Kawajiri family, but their son, Hayato, starts suspecting his ulterior motives. One day, he kills a couple just for insulting him, which Hayato witnesses. When he realizes it, he kills Hayato, but realizes that killing him would only make things worse for him. That's when Killer Queen evolves and gives him the ability "Bites The Dust," which he uses to revive Hayato, turns him into a literal Tyke Bomb that kills Josuke and the gang, and then uses Bites the Dust to subject him to a "Groundhog Day" Loop where no matter what happens, he'll be unable to save them unless Yoshikage calls it off or he dies. When Josuke and the gang manage to break Killer Queen's hold on Hayato, Yoshikage nearly kills [[spoiler: Okuyasu, rigs his body into a bomb, and nearly kills Hayato again with it, but was saved by Crazy Diamond's ability to reconstruct his body. After he finally dies, Reimi subjects him to an eternity worse than Hell where he is tormented by the spirits of the people he has killed.

Any Mitigating Factors? Unlike DIO and the Pillar Men, Yoshikage was just an ordinary man who awakened his Stand ability. The closest thing he has to a Freudian Excuse was that his father, Yoshihiro, spoiled him rotten, much like J. Geil's mother. As far as the Heinous Standard goes, Yoshikage at this point was the first villain to actually kill children on-screen, where as J. Geil and Angelo's murders were only briefly glimpsed in flashbacks. As far as redeemable qualities go, we get a Bait the Dog moment where it looks like Yoshikage is developing a soft spot for Shinobu, the wife of the man he replace and Hayato's mother when Stray Cat hurts her. However, he just brushes it off as him wanting to avoid his cover being blown. He also only seems to keep his father and Stray Cat around because they're useful to him. He all but admits that he commits his crimes For the Evulz.

Final Verdict I'm not to sure, so I'll wait for everybody else's opinion on him.

Kira's an almost definite no. He has just enough redeeming ambiguity to offset how nasty he is.

Ah, ever since Diamond Is Unbreakable ended its anime run, I've been waiting for this proposal to be made. Surprised it took THIS long, honestly.

As Lighty said, Kira is nowhere near a CM. Easily heinous enough, sure, but the dude is certifiably insane in a VERY disqualifying way, and his 'love' for the....hands....he procurs is genuine, if sickeningly twisted.

Also, there's a spin-off manga where he is, for all intents and purposes, portrayed as a good person. He lost his memories of his killer past, and instead of going on a new kiling spree or being a douche, he's basically as much of a hero as the Jojo family itself.

Put it this way: If Kira DIDN'T have a hand fetish, he would be a completely upstanding person in every way. He doesn't go out of his way to be a prick unless it's to silence someone who could oust him, and in his everyday life, he's a perfectly genial dude.

Kira is an AMAZING villain, and one of my favorite in anime or manga, but the whole reason he's such a great villain is that he's NOT some super evil irredeemable monster. He's an average joe whose 'vice' in life is killing instead of, say, drinking or smoking.

edited 24th Mar '17 3:28:10 PM by Ravok

I'll have to go with Lighty and Rovok and vote Kira. Still wonder when we are going to bring back D'Arby since we voted to keep him at the very last minute

Also to Cade

Did we? I think it was voted narrowly to cut, like by no more than 4 votes? I'm still a bit chagrined by that, as, while not having a HUGE bodycount, his And I Must Scream crimes seem unique. Maybe we should do a final effortpost and vote to settle this once and for all?

Echoing Lighty and Ravok with a to Kira.

on Kira due to disqualifying factors.

Well to settle this issue here is Terrence D'Arby's effort post and see if he counts once and for all.

Who is he? What does he do?

Terrence is one of the many stand users who work for Dio in Part III. He acts as one of the four stand users who guard Dio's castle. However, unlike Vanilla Ice, Pet Shop, and Kenny G. Terrence shows how he takes pleasure in harming innocents as well.

Terrence uses his stand, Atum, to trap the souls of anybody he defeats in a video game into a doll. His victims are fully aware of their situation, yet are unable to do anything about it. When Jotaro, Joseph, and Kakyoin confront him, he reveals that he has at least 20 people as part of his "collection", trapped in a cabinet and only able to see the light of day whenever he wants to play with them for his amusement. He talks about how he enjoys playing with his dolls, showing no care for human life. Multiple of the dolls are shown crying about their situation, their loneliness, or begging to be saved.

After using Jotaro's arm as a hostage to make sure he isn't attacked, he has Kakyoin play for his soul. When Kakyoin loses, Terrence makes sure to let Jotaro and Joseph know that if they attack him or threaten him, he'll kill Kakyoin. And unlike his brother Daniel, who gave Jotaro and the others the choice of risking their souls, he made sure to put them in a situation where they'd be forced to play against him, and takes joy in Kakyoin being added to his collection. And while he claims to be against cheating, he uses his stand to give himself an unfair advantage against Jotaro during their game, as well as attempting to play mind games on Jotaro to make him lose his focus so he can take Jotaro's soul for himself as well.

Is he heinous by the standards of the story?

While he doesn't have that high of a body count like the other C Ms it is still a pretty high body count having at least 20 people maybe even more. Like ACW said him putting them all into And I Must Scream situation makes him especially unique.

The reason he traps traps peoples souls for fun, and is one of the few antagonists to have several known innocent victims before he even started to work for Dio.

While these people came out alive, its is clear they have experienced a lot of pain and agony in their Fate Worse than Death, and are clearly traumatized, making it clear that they never return to normal.

He also stands out as one of the few minor villains that the heroes shown disgust of his actions, and even breaks Kakyoin's usually calm demeanor.

Freudian Excuse or other mitigating factors?

He has no Freudian Excuse. He has a few traits that could be considered redeeming to some (trapping the soul of a Serial Killer doctor, and not being as much a cheat as his brother), but he talks about how he enjoys listening to the stories of the doctor, showing no disgust for what the doctor did, and he still proves that he's willing to play unfairly in his games when he faced Jotaro.

Final Thoughts

I'm leaving that to you guys?

edited 24th Mar '17 4:14:36 PM by G-Editor

And I'll affirm my .

Yeah I still think D'Arby is a keeper.

On the topic of Kira he's a . He has enough positive things to stop him from being this. He's a fucked up guy but what makes him enjoyable is that he isn't insane. He breaks the mold of villainy. The only main enemies we've seen so far that count is Dio and Diavolo. Funny Valentine I believe is meant to be a Well-Intentioned Extremist from the sounds of fans, Pucci is just following orders from Dio himself and Kars while he is a douchebag doesn't pass the heinous standards. He even has a couple of Pet the Dog moments. Surprisingly the more vile villains are the minor ones. Also I give a for D'Arby.

On the subject of vile anime villains I still haven't met a villain that I hate more than Ragyo Kiryuin and Embryo. Maybe I need to watch Berserk.

edited 24th Mar '17 5:25:27 PM by ReynTime250