During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I doubt that they're obligatory, but they do, in my experience, make for an easier read and can be more informative about the villain or used to simplify in-universe concepts.
Is there an example of an unseen monster? Like a monster that is only mentioned, but they still count despite this? If so how?
edited 25th Jul '16 9:57:04 PM by Mediawatcher
A total has-been.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Totally unseen, never appearing anywhere at any point? Never. If a villain who's a CM is unseen or barely seen in one work, they have to have an established character in other works or side material in order to validate their status. Sauron's probably the ur-example of this.
Wild Child
I don't see how they could. That's... beyond a Generic Doomsday Villain.
Lizzid people!
There is Josh. Besides his arms being seen, he's a relatively enigmatic figure.
I think yashiro gakus brother can also apply
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
true but briefly
edited 25th Jul '16 10:24:36 PM by Mediawatcher
Wild Child
The Killer's Brother is seen.
Yeah, but he said mentioned only. Even though we only see his arms, that's still more than a mention of him.
edited 25th Jul '16 10:28:54 PM by Awesomekid42
Lizzid people!
I misread what he meant.
so if completly unseen then no, but if seen only a little bit, even just a body part then yes
Albert contiello and the fan zone killer only appear for like one mission in their games and that's about it
edited 25th Jul '16 10:47:46 PM by Mediawatcher
There are a lot of C Ms with limited screen time. To use an example I proposed, Elijah Baker only appears for about five minutes in a feature-length film, and is still established as a total bastard.
The thing with Josh is that though he's The Faceless and little is known about who he is, he's otherwise completely on-screen; he still gets plenty of time to talk and do things (horrible things, I might add) on-screen.
edited 25th Jul '16 11:38:15 PM by Scraggle
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I thought the stalker from Pen Pal never actually appeared?
There is no beginning. There is no end. There is only... Hooty.
Thinking about if, if the stalker was never shown, how do the readers know that he died with a smile?
Dunno... looking back over the original discussion I see he did appear at one point anyway (presumably while still alive), though not directly identified at the time.
There is no beginning. There is no end. There is only... Hooty.
Presumably because his corpse was discovered later, I'd wager.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Melkor.
edited 27th Jul '16 1:34:31 PM by MGD107
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Any issues with adding this image to ImageLinks.Complete Monster?
edited 26th Jul '16 8:07:55 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Wild Child
It looks fine, I guess.
Also, has anyone seen the new Ghostbusters (2016) movie that just came out?
Why so serious?
I haven't seen it, fortunately.
edited 26th Jul '16 10:29:23 AM by Kookosbanaani
No. We have to meet them, even if only briefly.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I MAY have another Judge Dredd example. I'll have to read the story to see if his Freudian Excuse disqualifies him, but heinousness isn't an issue. For the curious, it's Colonen Yevgeny Borisenko.
That WILL probably do it for Dredd baddies though, at least for now. The others are too insane (Cal), have loved ones (apparently PJ Maybe and Inga), or aren't heinous enough (pretty much everyone else).
edited 26th Jul '16 12:20:15 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Well, let us know. The only guys I can see counting besides could be the Judge Child and one villain from Anderson's private plotline.
On a completely random note, is potholing obligatory for CM entries?