During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Freudstein
What's the overall heinous standard of Far Cry?
edited 25th May '16 6:41:47 PM by DemonDuckofDoom
Lizzid people!
Freudstein.
@Largo Quagmire: We've discussed Steven Universe on this thread, so far no one counts, though I'm positive that Yellow Diamond will count by the end of her arc (As far as I'm concerned, people on this thread highly overestimate the show's idealism: the only "villains" who have been redeemed so far weren't even that evil to begin with).
I kinda wanted to be the one to effortpost anyone from the show, but I'm curious: are you planning on proposing someone from Steven Universe? I'm all caught up and can't imagine who you'd propose if you chose to do so: the Diamonds are "wait and see" candidates, and Jasper so far is kind of a generic thuggish brute a'la DBZ's Raditz.
But on another note, those Joker and Captain America-related plot twists... wow. I can't really say anything that hasn't been said already, but I felt like I was the victim of a late April Fool's Day prank. Cap's a Hydra Agent? The Joker was actually three people and Batman never caught on? What in the high holy hell is this?!
edited 25th May '16 8:38:40 PM by FriedWarthog
to Batari and Dr. Freudstein.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I know, right? They're seriously running low on good ideas. Or, for that matter, the ability to recognise when a massive plot twist is even remotely a good idea or not.
Well it is hard to describe, but it depends on the game. Far Cry is an anthology series where the heinous standard differs.
For example Far Cry 3 takes place on an island where where pirates sells people into slavery and in order to survive you must sacrifice your morals nd become a badass killing machine. Out of all the characters in that game Hoyt Volker is the only one meet the requirement to becoming a CM due to surpassing the heinous standard and having no sympathetic or redeeming qualities. Far Cry 4 on the other hand, takes place in the Himalayas where you lead a revolution against the tyrant Pagan Min. No one counts due to either having redeeming qualities or not meeting the heinous standard.
Now as for Far Cry Primal, you lead a tribe who fights against Ull's tribe the Udam and Batari's tribe the Izila in order to prosper. Ull fails to count as a CM due to not really taking joy in what he does. He doesn't enjoy eating people, but believes he must in order to survive a disease that has been plaguing his tribe called the "Skull Fire" and his home is in a frozen wastland fights the Wenja so that his tribe has a new home. He also have redeeming qualities in the form of two children whom he loves very dearly. Batari on the other hand has no such excuses whatsoever. Her tribes home takes place in a rather rich land, but commands her people to cause havoc, in which by the way is much destructive than what the Udam could do, simply because she believes that they are inferior to her and should just be burned to death or be her slaves then get burned to death. She claim this is all for her god, but in reality this is all about herself and fueling her hunger for power, and uses this excuse just for her to do whatever she wants. She even kills her OWN SON when she finds out he plans to succeed her and is only haunted by the fact that his spirit might come to kill her. Basically she doesn't NEED to do all of this, but simply CHOOSES to if it means proving her superiority over others.
edited 25th May '16 7:29:05 PM by G-Editor
Wild Child
Batari and Freudstein.
Lizzid people!
My problem with Batari, and the reason I'm voting ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
, is that I seriously question the standard of morality in a prehistoric setting. The Iliza tribe worships a malevolent fire god called Suxlii who they think will cause the moon to fall and kill everyone unless they have slaves build a great temple to her. Batari was born on a solar eclipse, thus the Iliza believed she was the daughter of Suxli. Batari was raised to be the high priestess of their religion and effectively the leader of their society. In this age that predates the modern standards of society, superstition and spiritual beliefs would obviously dominate every aspect of the Iliza. Under those circumstances, I honestly can't fault Batari for turning out like she did. She was raised from birth with the belief that she had the blood of a god within her and led her tribe in a brutal and savage world where spirituality was all they had to make sense of their horrible state of existence.
edited 25th May '16 9:41:10 PM by LoreDeluxe
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
@ACW
Snowflame was actually kind of awesome in a ludicrous sort of way. He did get great supervillain dialogue. " I am Snowflame! Every cell of my being burns with white-hot ecstasy. Cocaine is my God — and I am the human instrument of its will!"
Snowflame is super funny.
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
I'm abstaining on Batari for now. Leaning towards .
So I looked back at my first (and my only) CM write up, the character Dr. Rasmin Yelkov in Monster.SCPFoundation, and I cringed the hell out (like we all do when looking back over at our past writings). I've decided to give it a rewrite and tighten up the writing a bit.
Here's the current version:
- Dr. Rasmin Yelkov is the Mad Scientist behind the creation of SCP-1994. Contacted by his peer with the task of finding a method to synthesize human teeth, Dr. Yelkov's solution was disproportionately lethal. After meeting with a man who lives with the mystical teeth-growing tooth faeries, Dr. Yelkov killed the man and captured the fairies when his purchase offer was rejected. Through experimenting on the fairies and testing on human subjects, some of which are children, Dr. Yelkov develops a serum that causes growths of tooth-like calcified masses all over the body before turning the entire body into rot. When the growths became contagious, he sees it as a minor setback and plans on continuing his research elsewhere. Despite all this, he delivers the teeth-growing bodies to his peer, not caring about the consequences and even considering it as a success. Showing zero regret to his actions, the remorseless Dr. Yelkov shows that even in a world of monstrous SCPs, some humans can be even worse.
Here's my proposed rewrite:
- Dr. Rasmin Yelkov is the Mad Scientist behind the creation of SCP-1994. Contacted by his peer with the task of synthesizing human teeth, Dr. Yelkov's solution was disproportionately lethal. After meeting with a man who lives with the mystical teeth-growing tooth faeries, Dr. Yelkov killed the man and captured the fairies when his purchase offer was rejected. Dr. Yelkov dissected the fairies and performed cruel experiments on human subjects, some of which are children, to develop a serum that grows rotten calcified masses to all over the body. When the growths became contagious, the uncaring Dr. Yelkov sees it as a minor setback and plans on continuing his research elsewhere, while still delivering the teeth-covered corpses to his peer, not caring about the lethal consequences and even considering it as a success.
Also, the entry for SCP-953 didn't mention how she dealt with the three agents investigating into her. Should I do a rewrite to include that?
edited 25th May '16 10:48:53 PM by Wuz
90s comics weren't as bad as the rap they're getting here. The mainstream guys (Bats/Supes/X-Men/Spidey) got worked and there was dumb "over muscled antihero" art all over the place, but there was all kinds of awesome stuff going on outside of that, including ahead-of-their-time classics like the Joe Kelly Deadpool and the Christopher Priest Ray, to say nothing of the mainstream stuff that ended up awesome anyway, like the Peter David Aquaman, Supergirl, and Hulk, or the Morrison JLA or the Waid Flash.
Well so far the tally for Batari is 4 1 and two abstain.
To answer Lord Deluxe argument, yes Batari was born on a solar eclipse and that may have a contribution to her god complex, but there wasn't any mention of the Izila tribe being a malevolent cult prior to Batari taking over the tribe nor that Suxlii was a malevolent god and all of the violent actions that the Izila has performed was during Batari's reign. Yes the Izila tribe may have believe that their god might drop the moon on to them, but Batari didn't care about that and was only intrested in gaining more power under the belief she is entitled to have it. It was also said that her son Krati was born in similar circumstances, but was said to never turn out as deranged or power hungry as her mother and even tried to stage a rebellion against her so he could save the tribe from going to a dark path.
edited 25th May '16 11:30:40 PM by G-Editor
On a more random note, the Mythology & Religion section title in Monster/OtherMedia links to a nonexistent page. It should be changed to just Main/Mythology, which is a page for all the myth pages.
edited 26th May '16 12:51:03 AM by Wuz
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
- Wuz: Please add the rewrite to the drafts page.
- Yeah, Phaeton at least is probably okay.
- Freudstein, as it seems the movie isn't QUITE pointless gorebage (yes, I just made that up
).
- Tyk (and anyone else): To "claim" a work for the discussion dates, just do what I did with Mutants in Manhattan.
edited 26th May '16 1:20:37 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
What about Batari?
Batari and Freudstein
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Unsure. Abstaining for now.
Freuidstein
to Batari and Freudstein.
A suggestion: in the write - up of Duxton Chevalier, I suggest to cut the last entry "In the end, Duxton gets his comeuppance when Roger sends him falling to a messy Disney Villain Death." Aside from being a spoiler, it has nothing do to with Duxton's actions as a CM.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
The work? We don't all know the work by just naming the villain.
On Exo Squad, Phaeton doesn't need to be touched. The other two should be expanded, though.
edited 25th May '16 5:48:04 PM by Scraggle