Old Description or New Description: The Joker

Alright, so maybe it wasn't such a good idea to change The Joker page's description without holding a town meeting... I might've started the page, but others have added to it over the years... or year.

Which do you guys prefer? The old, clunky (in my opinion, anyway) first-person description, or the new, mostly third-person description, here:

The Clown Prince of Crime. The Harlequin of Hate. The Monster Clown.

Debuting in the landmark Batman #1, a mere year after his archnemesis made his first appearance, the Joker is undoubtedly Batman's greatest foe. Though his depiction during The Golden Age Of Comic Books was that of a fairly routine criminal mastermind with a unique appearance and gimmick (his so-called "Joker Venom"), the Joker would prove to be the most popular villain that Batman ever faced, and indeed would often appear in several back-to-back issues during the 1940s (and yes, all of them were separate stories).

Ironically, the further he stuck around, the less dangerous the Joker became - his penchant for murder and enjoyment of violence were gradually replaced with a larger-than-life personality and obsession with comedy and practical jokes of all kinds. As the Silver Age went on, the Joker became more prone to bizarre robberies or schemes specifically meant to humiliate Batman (a classic example being the infamous "Joker's Comedies of Errors" from Batman #66) rather than murder. Joker Venom and switchblades would be replaced with squirting flowers, prank-laden utility belts, and the ever-classic Jokermobile. It was also during this era that the Clown Prince of Crime's origin was established - the thief known as the "Red Hood" that faced off against Batman in a factory and leaped into a vat of chemicals, facilitating his escape but forever distorting his physical appearance.

As the sixties came and went, DC was undergoing new management - the Comics Code had been discredited, and writer Dennis O'Neil, with the approval of editor Julius Schwartz, returned the Joker to his homicidal roots with the seminal "The Joker's Five-Way Revenge" (Batman #251). A couple years later, writer Steve Englehart would up the ante with the "Laughing Fish" storyline, portraying the Joker as not just homicidal but genuinely insane (three words: patenting Joker fish) and an intellectual match for the Batman. And in-between, a Joker ongoing, canceled after nine issues, chronicled the homicidal-yet-wacky hi-jinks of the Ace of Knaves as he tangled with everyone from Green Arrow to Lex Luthor.

Come the eighties, two stories would cement the Joker's role as Batman's arch-nemesis - Alan Moore's The Killing Joke, and Jim Starlin's "A Death in the Family" (Batman #426-429). While the former featured the Harlequin of Hate paralyzing Barbara Gordon and put a tragic (but unconfirmed) twist on the Joker's backstory, the latter featured him violently murdering Jason Todd, the second Robin. These two tragedies would continue to haunt Batman for the rest of his career, bringing his feud with the Joker to new levels.

Of course, we have barely scratched the surface of this grand mogul of mountebanks, this genocidal jester, this most brilliant criminal alive. I, Professor I.M. Rekoj, Gotham's foremost expert on its costumed criminals and their psychologies, shall be your host for the evening. Join us tonight, as we probe every nook and cranny of the Joker's history and being, from his slaying of our dear commissioner's wife years ago to his enigmatic involvement in the madness surrounding the return of Doctor Thomas Wayne. From his first foray onto the small screen with the late Cesar Romero to his chilling portrayal on the big by the also-late Heath Ledger.

Yes, we will get to all that... just as soon as the Venom's done kicking in and we're done robbing you blind.

RRRRIIIIP!!!

Ah, there we go!

Ladies and gentlemen, as you continue to undergo horrific hallucinations and start laughing like, well, crazy while your barely-existent brains begin to shut down, you may notice that your skin is turning a lovely white color, and your hair a shade of green so rich, only your undertaker will know for sure. Rest assured, this is all perfectly natural, and rest assured, this particular batch of Joker Venom is designed to allow for just the right amount of suffering before you croak - not too fast, not too slow, and just the right-sized smile!

Now, while my men walk around and relieve you of your wallets and jewelry, let us continue with tonight's seminar. Sure, I might be an insane mass-murderer you all might be dying horrifically, but I promised you all a presentation tonight, and if nothing else... I'm certainly a man of my word...

Heh heh heh...

I much prefer the version posted here. It's easier to read.

I say we either keep the article written either completely in first-person or entirely in third.

All of the first-person text at the end of this writeup could be cut without taking anything of substance away from the rest of the description (except for the actual description of what Joker Venom usually does; though wouldn't it just be easier to give a quick note about what it does after Joker Venom is mentioned right at the beginning of the article).

edited 28th Dec '10 2:12:23 PM by SeanMurrayI

Agree. Though it reads list a gossip columnist wrote it. Zing :)

Personaly, I prefer the old version

The new version. It's clearer.

Needs more maniacal laughter.

Since the Joker is a character with No Fourth Wall having his page written by him is a nice fun gag. And much more informative than just a dry description that could be lifted from The Other Wiki, which I keep getting assured we aren't.

But even though we're not a serious site, we're not a humor site either. Humor shouldn't obscure a good article. I'm not really crazy about a article being written in the vioce of the Joker but if we are, that's a pretty good description the OP wrote up.

edited 3rd Jan '11 1:17:57 PM by DrStarky

Keep old. I feel that The Joker is one of the three SDA Villains (or whatever you consider Deadpool is) who honestly should be in the first person, mainly as he might have Fourth Wall Awareness. That said, I don't mind reworking this page's opening, it's pretty damn clunky.

who's the third?

Doctor Doom, I'm guessing. As the creator of both versions of Joker's page I honestly believe Doom's to be the best SDA here.

allow me to respectfully dissagree, as it is a bit narmy to imagine someone like doom typing up his own page.

I like the one that holds off on the 1st person until the end.

A Complete First-Person article would be best for someone like Deadpool.

There probably is already, right?

joker is known for breaking the fourth wall, and I dont know about you, but I practicly hear the old one in Mark Hamill's voice,and by comparison, the new one seems dull

edited 12th Jan '11 7:13:16 PM by dontcallmewave

I gotta say that the first person article for Deadpool is really confusing for a guy like me who hasn't heard about him in the first place.

edited 12th Jan '11 7:45:13 PM by DrStarky

Completely off topic, but still on the same page, which stinger is better:

->Waldorf: So this man's a comedian and a criminal?
Statler: Why not? They're one and the same anyway!
Both and a third voice: Doh-ho-ho-ho-ho!
Statler and Waldorf: Ho-ho? Ho-Ho-h...no-
OH-HO-HO-HO-HO-HO-HO-*hurk*
Joker: (still Laughing) Oh-ho-ho-ho-ho-ho! Hee-hee-hee. Heh.

OR

(Inside spoiler tags) Admit it.... you heard this whole thing in Mark Hamill's voice!

there is currently a discussion over here in regard to the S&W stingers, and I was told that I should ask on a discussion page, and since there was already one for this page...

edited 24th Jan '11 4:53:33 PM by dontcallmewave

The latter is far superior, IMO.

which one is the latter?

Former is first and Latter is the second one.

edited 24th Jan '11 5:12:48 PM by Raso

so the spoiler tag one?

Latter means second. So, the Mark Hamill quip.

Right. I wouldn't actually put it in spoiler tags, though. I kinda hate those things even when PROPERLY used, but there's nothing being spoiled here....

I don't like the Mark Hamill stinger at all.

I like the first one, though I think it would work better with a bit of editing, namely, cut out the part where the Joker kills the two. The first part (of the first one) stands out fine on it's own.

It does kind of lame out as is.