Misused: Katanas Are Just Better

Note: This thread was posted by El Rise

Another weapon trope to deal with.

Katanas Are Just Better is when the katana is portrayed as superior to other weapons. Like other weapon tropes, it quickly devolved into "a katana is used / present". A wick check is conducted to gauge the severity of misuse and sinkholes. Here are the results:

• Correct: 2/60 (3.33%)
• Misuse: 28/60 (46.67%)
• ZCE: 9/60 (15%)
• Sinkhole: 21/60 (35%)

Solutions (open to other options):

• Rename + put a note in the trope description saying "character has katana" is incorrect.
• New trope (Gratuitous Katana?)
• Cut / Disambig + Yard

~El Rise

As mentioned in other thread, as-is the trope doesn't work, it needs a "Better than...".

Maybe rename to Katana Superiority and keep examples where other swords/weapons are contrasted, depending on how many are there.

The description also talks how asian weapons get an Exotic Weapon Supremacy treatement, so maybe something can be done with that as well.

Edited by Amonimus on May 2nd 2024 at 9:16:47 PM

I figured it would be bad but not this bad. That said, there is a pop-cultural perception of katanas being superior to other weapons, and I can point to legitimate examples in Rurouni Kenshin and The Sacred Blacksmith. I would support doing like we did with Drop The Hammer and disambiguating the current page, and reusing the definition with something clearly indicated as a character's or narrative's opinion.

Maybe something like 'Katanas Are Superior' Opinion, restricted to IUEO?

ETA: ^Katana Superiority could work too.

Edited by StarSword on May 2nd 2024 at 2:22:38 PM

Good idea.

I think the creation of a Gratuitous Katana trope would cover a lot of the misuse.

to renaming to something like Katana Superiority.

to StarSword suggestion

Wouldn't Katana Superiority have the exact same misuse problem as the current name?

I think the Gratuitous Katana idea has merit if turned into a Weapon-Based Characterization trope (Needs a better name though). Wielding a katana is associated with characters who are "cool" and/or "edgy" and use the weapon even when the setting isn't medieval Japan. Most of the misuse in the wick seems to be along these lines.

Edited by BlackMage43 on May 2nd 2024 at 4:24:13 AM

Besides "Katanas beat (or cut through) all other swords", there is also "Katanas are the only bladed weapons used in a modern setting". Like Blade or Vampire: The Masquerade. There are several elements here, they are exotic to Anglophones, they are more intricately decorated than most European swords, their sharpness and thinness is alluring to those who don't know the practicalities of fighting with blades. It results in katanas being used among guns where other swords would be considered out of place. Would this be worth including, or should it be its own trope?

I'm not exactly sure I'm cool with Gratuitous Katana as a trope rename, because what exactly determines "gratuitous"? Look at the misuse examples in the wick check — does the name actually rectify any of those examples that simply list "character uses a katana"? Usually, "gratuitous ___" tropes are able to provide a lot of context for when something is unusual enough to be considered "gratuitous" (such as everyone speaking English except for one character who blurts out something in German), but this seems far more vague — does Clint Barton/Hawkeye in Avengers: Endgame using a katana while in Japan against katana-wielding yakuza members count?

If we wanna go back to focusing on the spirit of what Katanas Are Just Better is supposed to get down without just crossing over into "katana exists", I would end up siding with a title like Katana Is Better Than Other Swords to keep it closer to the "Exotic Weapon Supremacy" concept. I would very much like something focusing the whole concept of katanas being popular in the west in large part due to its "exoticism", like "it's foreign and aesthetically cool, therefore it must be better than what we have!"

Actually, thinking about it, I kinda think that principle might warrant its own general trope applicable to other non-western cultures of "it's foreign and looks cool, therefore it's objectively better" had Exotic Weapon Supremacy not already be the name of an index lol. Though that probably would be its own separate trope concept...

Edited by number9robotic on May 2nd 2024 at 4:01:10 AM

Well, we could always convert Exotic Weapon Supremacy into an indexing supertrope.

I would be wary of making any character trope out of this. Most weapon-specific tropes tend to decay into any time a character wields the weapon, without stating how the weapon adds to characterization (because sometimes, a duck is just a duck).

Yeah, that was why I was thinking of something more general-purpose. I mentioned RuroKen earlier: there's a bit in the original manga during Saitou Hajime's introduction where he explains that he still carries a katana instead of a Meiji Period police-issue saber because "sabers are weak and unreliable". In contrast the issue in The Sacred Blacksmith isn't one character's opinion, it's an issue with the forging process: most weapons in the setting are cast, whereas the title character uses worked steel, and happens to make katanas out of preference.

In other words, examples need to be accompanied with explanation of why the work or the character thinks katanas are superior.

Edited by StarSword on May 2nd 2024 at 9:35:05 AM

If there's an option to make Exotic Weapon Supremacy into a functional Super-Trope and not just an index, I'd be all for it (I'm kinda surprised it isn't already, tbh). Odd functional uses of weapons in a relative sense like Guns Akimbo, Bare-Fisted Monk, or heck, even Wooden Katanas Are Even Better (which oddly enough appears to be used correctly from first glance) are worthy of being their own tropes, whereas "use of a katana/character uses a katana" really shouldn't; examples of "katanas are foreign and exotic and thus inherently superior" examples should fall into Exotic Weapon Supremacy.

Edited by number9robotic on May 2nd 2024 at 8:45:20 AM

Gratuitous Katana would come off as a Garnishing the Story subtrope, and those are infamously prone to devolving into "X exists". If katanas being better than other weapons is deemed worthy of a separate trope, perhaps it could be something like Katanas Are Best, Katanas Are The Best Swords, or Katanas Beat Everything. I feel like there should be something that isn't clunky and won't attract "katanas exist" misuse, but I can't quite come up with it (in part because anything that might be construed as "the katana trope" would attract that sort of misuse).

Let me clarify I think the current trope should be renamed to Katana Superiority and talk about the perception of katanas being superior to other weapons. Making it a subtrope of Exotic Weapon Supremacy makes sense. But a lot of the misuse seems to talk about katanas being present when they don't make sense to be there or edgy/"cool" characters using katanas, which I think are valid trope concepts. Hence the idea of perhaps making a Gratuitous Katana trope (the Vampire the Masquerade example I think could fit here if katanas are the only bladed weapons in the setting).

Edited by PhiSat on May 3rd 2024 at 2:47:51 AM

Just to be clear, it's Katana Superiority if it's explained why the katana is better than all other weapons in the setting. Gratuitous Katana if there are katanas in a setting where other weapons like guns, including western swords exist?

Edited by Zabilac on May 8th 2024 at 9:40:25 AM

More that the katana is basically present for the cool factor in a setting where you wouldn't normally expect to see one. Like some cowboy rolling up with a katana strapped to his hip instead of a six-shooter.

Edited by StarSword on May 8th 2024 at 2:26:14 PM

Well, couldn't that just be Rule of Cool? Is there really a need to specifically call out the common use of katanas for the purpose? That's an honest question, by the way. After all, Rule of Cool has plenty of subtropes, "using katanas as a shorthand for coolness" could certainly be another one.

I don't see how the name Katana Superiority would help with the problem at hand; it seems equally likely to devolve into "katanas exist".

The current trope is Rule of Cool, but katanas showing up where they don't really belong for Rule of Cool is a specific and common enough application of Rule of Cool to qualify as a subtrope, methinks. I can think of plenty of examples where katanas are there when they don't really make sense, like in Kill Bill and John Wick, or in the aforementioned Vampire: The Masquerade.

Edited by PhiSat on May 16th 2024 at 9:56:08 AM