Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
palpatine
Friendly But Grim
to Palpatine.
Meanwhile, I've got a candidate I've wanted to propose for a little.
What is the work?
Imaginary (not to be confused with other films coming out at the time) is a 2024 supernatural horror film directed by Jeff Wadlow. It is about a woman named Jessica who is forced to unexpectedly deal with her past (and the everlasting consequences of it) once her daughter, Alice, makes friends with a bear naming itself Chauncey.Who is the character? What did he do?
Chauncey the Bear is the main antagonist of the film. He is a part of a demonic species (aptly called Imaginary Friends) that tether to the young, but become malicious if it considers itself to be abandoned.Before the events of the film, he had attempted to lure a five-year old Jessica into the Never Ever, his home territory, to keep her forever. However, his plan is foiled by Ben, Jessica's father. However, while Jessica had escaped the Never Ever, Chauncey would cause Ben to go mentally insane by having Ben look into his eyes, showing Ben all the children he had ever tormented. This event would be somewhat wiped from Jessica's memory due to both trauma and the fact she was super young.
Years later, Jessica's stepdaughter, Alice, would encounter Chauncey in the basement after they had moved into Jessica's childhood home, and she quickly grows attached to him. While it is innocent at first, Jess eventually grows weary of Chauncey's ever-growing presence in Alice's life.
Alice would begin to become focused on a scavenger hunt set up by Chauncey. Which, once again, while starting off innocent, eventually grows darker and darker, accumulating to Alice almost impaling herself with a nail (which Chauncey had disguised as a sunflower), only to be saved by Jessica. During this hunt as well, Chauncey would toy with Liam, a boy Taylor (Alice's sister) had over, and after revealing its demonic form to him, Liam becomes terrified of Chauncey and Jessica's family altogether (later shown when he shuts the blinds on Taylor, who simply looked up at him)
The event prompts Jessica to call a child psychiatrist, Dr. Sotos, who in turn convinces Alice to confront Chauncey about the nail. Once she does, however, Chauncey suddenly becomes aggressive, threatening her as well as telling her that nobody loves her apart from him. Alice, in tears, cuts off their friendship, which pisses off Chauncey.
Dr. Sotos, concerned, talks to Jessica and it is there that it is revealed that only Jessica and Alice can see the bear. After being shown past footage of a patient, Jessica realizes she had also seen the Never Ever. Meanwhile, Alice apologies to Chauncey for their fight, which allows Chauncey to have Alice gather the pieces as they build the door to the Never Ever, allowing Chauncey to successfully take her away.
As Jessica begins to connect the pieces, Gloria, Jessica's old babysitter, reveals to Taylor that Jessica herself had Chauncey as a friend when she was really young, but Chauncey grew furious once he had considered himself to be abandoned.
Jessica, Taylor and Gloria meet up and eventually do the scavenger hunt on their own, ending up in the Never Ever. After looking into a veil causing Jessica to see what had actually happened to her father, Gloria suddenly shuts the way out, revealing that she had become obsessed with the Never Ever due to Chauncey (now known as The Entity). Immediately afterward, Chauncey pulls Gloria through a door and mauls her to death, revealing herself to simply have been bait.
During Jessica and Taylor's journey through the Never Ever, Taylor is almost murdered (with Chauncey taking the form of a demented Alice) but is saved by Jessica. Eventually, the two find Alice in a fake version of her life created by Chauncey, himself having taken the form of Jessica and Taylor's mentally ill mother. Jessica gains an idea on how to use imagination against Chauncey, building a false blue door, along with Taylor. Chauncey (still in mom form) attempts to convince Alice to not join in, but once she does, Chauncey attempts to attack the group, but is pushed back into the gifts by Jessica.
Chauncey, now in monstrous bear form, rises from the gifts and lets out a furious roar. Taylor and Alice escape into the real world as Jessica confronts Chauncey. Chauncey is about to kill her but is stabbed in the eye with a pair of scissors. Jessica ends up falling back into the Never Ever, breaking her leg in the process. Jessica ends up getting back to the "door" and, after being almost murdered, escapes into the "real world."
However, shortly after while visiting Ben, Jessica realizes that she is still trapped in the Never Ever and that Alice was merely bait for Chauncey to claim his true prize: Jessica. In that moment, Chauncey begins talking through the bodies of Jessica's family members, telling her to stay with him, and if she doesn't, then he'll keep going for her family members to lure her back. Terrified, Jessica agrees, but ends up being saved by the real Taylor.
Jessica and Taylor run back through the Never Ever, finding the real door back home. Chauncey, however, turns into its true form, Simon the Spider and attempts to kill them one last time. Jessica, Taylor and Alice begin to cover up the door, but Chauncey, using it's last resort, attempts to make Jessica go insane the same way as her father: Showing her the combined imaginations of the children he had tormented. Before he fully makes her go insane, Alice lights the stuffed bear, and in turn, The Entity, on fire, causing it to shriek and go back into the Never Ever. The group escape the burning house.
In an epilogue scene, Jessica (now with a crutch), Taylor and Alice go into a hotel. However, it's revealed that Chauncey had undertaken the name "Rufus" and had attached itself to another little boy using the exact same bear. Jessica, Taylor, and Alice, seeing this, decides to go to another hotel. The little boy repeats Alice's words to his mother ("He's not imaginary"), but his mother dismisses him, allowing the cycle to presumably continue.
Mitigating Factors?
There are a few I'd like to talk about.The main factor that could be mitigating is the fact that the whole movie essentially starts because Chauncey considers Jessica to have abandoned him and holds a grudge against her for that, thus it could be considered a tragedy prevention. While this is a very reasonable factor, I don't think it holds up in the long run once his actions are really considered and put to thought. He harms Jessica herself, her family, and even attempts to harm Liam, who had no connections to Jessica or her family at all and had no interference with Chauncey's plan other than being a jerk at most. On top of that, it isn't shown or even implied Chauncey still has genuine care for Jessica in the movie by this point, it is more likely he only wanted keep her in the Never Ever due to his own spite.
Another factor could be that Chauncey is shown to be friendly with Alice, even cradling with her at one point. However, this is most definitely for pragmatic reasons as in the climax of the movie, Jessica correctly concludes that Alice was simply bait for Chauncey to lure her back, to which Chauncey bluntly confirms. Therefore, Chauncey had really only been Alice's friend just to gain her trust.
Heinous Standard
Chauncey absolutely destroys the standards, considering most other villains in the story are either misled pawns (such as Gloria) or simply teenage jerks (such as Liam). On top of that, Chauncey mentally toys with young children to take to the Never Ever, and has seemed to have succeeded with most of his victims, judging by the hundreds of children he has jumped through (as seen in his eyes). He is also willing to kill who he considers bait, as he killed Gloria right after she essentially helped him by locking Jessica and Taylor's way out. If all else fails, he tries to drive the victim insane, which has worked once at the very least.Conclusion?
Yes to the very scary teddy bear. Do you want to play with me...? A simple game of hide and seek...?
A Child from the Stars
for the other Palpatine.
Palpatine Number God knows at this point.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Scarlet. She is a truly nasty individual, especially with her massacre of Corel, but her Even Evil Has Standards moment from the first part gives me pause. If she is gonna count, she'll have to subvert this moment HARD.
Honestly, I take more issue with the heinous Standard than that moment given how much of an upgrade in heinousness Hojo got which kinda of makes Scarlet stand out less
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
That Chauncey proposal was just copy and paste from the Pure Evil proposal from Villains Wiki.
Didn't he propose that character over there?
Friendly But Grim
Uh no it wasn't lol. I changed a bunch of stuff, rewrote the entire summary, Standards and Mitigating factors, and even then, I wrote the proposal for VW.
Edited by FriendlyGrim on Mar 27th 2024 at 12:10:27 PM
Do you want to play with me...? A simple game of hide and seek...?
Lizzid people!
With Chauncey, having seen the film, ultimately unsure if he hits. Kidnapping hundreds of children to feed on their imagination is bad, but don't think he hits the oomph part.
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Not sure on Chauncey. Or rather Simon the Spider.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
to Palpatine.
Abstain on Lord Clyde and Chauncey (how exactly is the feeding on their imagination presented?)
Can we discuss Janusz Krzycki a bit more? Unless I'm misreading something I'm a bit unsure about the reluctance. According to the effort post, the episode goes into detail about the rape, torture and torment his victims are subjected to and all of this has apparently been going on long enough for him to attract a lot of victims to his big party. Does it really matter its not made clear if he plans to kill or simply keep his victims afterwards?
Edited by MGD107 on Mar 27th 2024 at 4:15:38 AM
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
I'm less hung-up on that as opposed to the sheer amount of villains/episodes in this franchise and the steadily rising amount of other nasty villains from the show.
Messenger from another dimension.
Like I said, I think in any other work, he would be an easy keep. What isn't clear to me is if he keeps his victims or releases them but I think he likely keeps them or else police would catch him long ago. So yeah, he keeps probably. His dragon though doesn't since all he does is murder the woman who rebelled and attempted to murder another one both under orders of Janusz. If maybe he was shown to be equally brutal and actually torturing the girls, he would keep. But as things stand, he isn't shown really participating in torture; just standing there mostly.
Edited by emperors on Mar 27th 2024 at 6:59:22 AM
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Not the Eye
Lookin at live action monster page we only have six from show counting those two. Dosen’t seem terribly concerning when there are over 900 episodes.
I mean unless I'm reading wrong (I've never seen this show) there are only three human traffickers out of a show with nearly a thousand episodes. But yeah that's fair enough.
Well in the effort post you mention some of them were missing, so yeah presumably he is keeping them prisoner. Ah okay, so just his trigger man. Fair enough Yeah its a shame he got the longer sentence then.
Edited by MGD107 on Mar 27th 2024 at 4:05:57 AM
Messenger from another dimension.
I am planning on E Pring one more; Russian gangster. But first, I will work on writeups for those two since seems they are getting approved.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yeah, does he keep them prisoner and torture or rape them? Or just keep them prisoner? Or what?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Messenger from another dimension.
He certainly rapes them together with his friends. That is certain. Though, one woman says this is actually least bad thing that happens to them (which confuses me; rape is pure evil but again, neither here nor there) but yeah; it isn't clear if he keeps them prisoner forever or not, but I will watch an episode again to be sure.
RIP Toriyama
Next from Cyberpunk from me, this dude comes from the adventure Land of the Free:
Who is Okano? What has he done?
- Seiji Okano is an executive of the evil corporation Arasaka, who schemes to take control of the company for himself. Okano teams with the smaller company Biotechnica to perfect cloning of humans, ultimately resulting in the creation of "Adriana", a fully sentient, thinking, feeling clone. Okano desires to run experiments on and use Adriana as the template for an entire army of clones that Okano hopes to create as a Servant Race, meant for nothing but to serve as fodder he will use to ignite a new Corporate War (in-universe wars that are massively bloody and wreak havoc across entire countries), kill all of Arasaka's current ruling executives, and seize the throne.
- When Adriana escapes with help of her creator and concerned parties, Okano begins the hunt across America for her. He assassinates multiple people who try to help her; takes part in a plot to destroy an entire airship and kill the hundreds of innocents onboard to cover up her presence; and teams up with criminal Bayou Slim to hunt her, only to betray and murder Slim when he outlives his usefulness.
- Ultimately cornering the players and Adriana, Okano tries to convince them to hand her over. If the players agree without setting up any contingencies, Okana takes Adriana then promptly kills the players. If the players did plan ahead and yet still hand over Adriana, Okano has the poor woman practically lobotomized and her "personality defects" erased to reduce her to the blank slate Servant Race template he desires.
- Should the players refuse to cooperate, Okano cruelly uses Adriana's surrogate mother figure, the AI ELOISE, as a hostage and will attempt to murder the AI if Adriana still won't comply. Luckily, smart players will have called for backup at this point, and the vengeful Arasaka corporation will show up, wipe out Okano's forces, and send the man cowardly fleeing for his life from his pissed-off employers, while Adriana is free to live a life of peace and self-reliance.
Mitigating features?
Not a one, he's bad even by Arasaka standards and any promises he makes to the PC are completely hollow ones that he'll go back on at a moment's notice.
Heinousness?
He's trying to mass-produce sentient clones but for the sole purpose of being cannon fodder and a slave labor force for him, with which he'll wage a new bloody Corporate War. He murders a lot of people and downs an entire airship of hundreds while hunting Adriana, and should he capture the woman, he murders her AI guardian and lobotomizes her.
Final Verdict?
Keep
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
for Seiji Okano.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Seiji Okano
In another case of those "I'm not sure" cases...I have someone to EP.
Setting?
Fear & Hunger is a RPG Maker RPG-Roguelike hybrid infamous for its Guide Dang It! difficulty and its extreme brutality, with the Player Character being potentially subjected to horrifying fates in a Dark Fantasy Cosmic Horror Story world as they explore the Dungeons of Fear and Hunger.
The game got a sequel Fear & Hunger: Termina, that is set in a The 'Verse equivalent of the Second World War, following a ambiguous Broad Strokes combination of the endings of the first game.
Who is Pocketcat?
A servant created for the Moon God Rher, Pocketcat was created to hunt and kill children with divine ancestry to prevent them from ascending and changing the current natural-divine order.
Pocketcat however ended up being such a sadist that he started to hunt and devour other children, regardless of their ancestry. This is shown to the Player Character during a flashback to the Kingdom of Rondon, where its shown how the streets are filled with news about missing children, with the PC potentially watching Pocketcat capture and devour a children trying to run away.
Appearing in the first game as a Helpful NPC, the Pocketcat describes himself as a mercant, but one who accepts children instead of money. In the endgame, if the player has the Girl (the daughter of the New Goddess Silvian and candidate to become a God) in their party, Pocketcat would tempt and then threaten the team before running away as a coward if rejected.
Centuries later, in the 20 th century, Pocketcat appears again in the Festival of Termina, where he encourages the humans forced into the Battle Royale to kill each other by offering items in exchange for human heads.
However, Pocketcat also harasses Daan, The Medic and The Woobie, with a potential Bad Ending showing Daan being given a Breaking Speech by Pocketcat, who proceeds to turn him into another version of himself, implying that this has been how he has kept his life across centuries.
In Daan's ending, its implied that Daan willingly accepted to become a new vessel after crossing the Despair Event Horizon.
Heinous Standard?
Fear and Hunger is Dark. A world where the mooks are murderous rapists and where death, mutilation and human sacrifice is commonplace, with the Big Bad Ensemble (defining who is the Big Bad of this game is a nightmare) being responsible of the death of millions because their actions.
However, Pocketcat's Would Hurt a Child happens in a massive scale. Most of the enemies in the game do their things confined to their place, Pocketcat is a cannibal Serial Killer of children for centuries across all of Europa. He also isn't that powerful, don't get this wrong, he is inmortal and unkillable, but his actual combat power is far below many other characters.
Termina even reveals that his inmortality was obtained by him taking over the bodies of depressed people, manipulating them during their darkest moments to basically help them to commit mental suicide to use their bodies.
Mitigant traits?
Pocketcat was created to kill children. But Pocketcat doesn't limit himself to godly children, many children that he killed are shown to have nothing to do with gods at all. His sadism is definitely worse than intended for his creator.
He has a "sister" known as the Lady of the Moon, who also manipulates the player into giving her The Girl, but she is considerably less sadistic than him.
Verdict?
You decide.
Edited by KazuyaProta on Mar 27th 2024 at 11:37:08 AM
Watch me destroying my country
Seji
Insert title here
Pocketcat
Carrot Clone
Okano
