Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Moved it to Monster.Red Dead and made Red Dead Redemption a redirect.
By the way, should we ask the person who made the page come here?
Edited by Bullman on Apr 25th 2024 at 10:26:12 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Would be worth maybe P Ming them if they don't frequent the threads.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Okay I Pm'd them and invited them here.
So, do we want to keep the page?
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
With the large amounts of cuts goign on this week, I'd be guilty if I were to propose another cut.
Scratch it, I'm proposing another cut! ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
... *cough* — but to even things out, I'll put a keep and a cut in the same post. In a Good News, Bad News way, maybe.
Keep
Turns out I am Wrath starring John Travolta is on Youtube, whose former CM, Lemi K, is a candidate from G... I can vouch for this guy.
While most of Lemi K's deeds happens in a news montage pre-credits, within the movie K blackmails a senator (via sex tape featuring said senator's son) into sweeping K's criminal activities under a rug, impose a fingore on an unfortunate mook, had Travolta's wife killed because she's some sort of attorney investigating him and actively tries wiping out the rest of Travolta's family guns-ablazing, actually succeeding in killing Travolta's teen niece before holding Travolta's 4-year-old grandson at gunpoint.
K is maaaaaybe a bit above baseline, but I suppose he can stay.
Cut
YMMV.Firewall - a generic-as-hell "Die Hard" on an X-type movie, made when the Trope Namer — the OG Die Hard — is 17 years old, as the popularity of this particular genre reached its peak in the 90s before dying down in the mid-2000s. And despite being one of the more subdued, generic movies of the genre (the Big Bad has a grand total of two mooks, and the movie has onscreen deaths countable on ONE hand), somehow the Big Bad played by Paul Bettany is an approved CM.
Well, I searched the forums using "Bill Cox Firewall Complete Monster" as keywords, and turns out there are somehow two different EP for the same character posted in 2015 and 2018. (???)
The EP (both of them) and subsequent write-up are correct... and the candidate's gotta go. What are Bill Cox's crimes, as listed by the write-up?
- Holds the MC's family hostage and demands the MC to transfer 100 million dollars to Cox's offshore bank account... this is so common, it's a genre. We have villains holding up entire buildings, airports, stadiums and locations containing hundreds of people as hostage, and before you say "Cox only have two mooks! There's only 3 of them..." remember 12 years before this movie, Dennis Hopper held a bus and a train filled with people hostage, and blows up an entire SWAT team while working solo.
- Feeds Harrison Ford's young son a peanut cookie, despite knowing the boy has peanut allergy. If the YMMV page is anything to go by, it's considered a Moral Event Horizon moment for Cox, but... in the film? Cox randomly offers the boy a cookie, shrugs when the boy enquires if the cookie contain peanuts while maintaining his Affably Evil nature, and the boy voluntarily grabs the cookie (scene is on the tube, here) resulting in having an epileptic seizure. The EP and write-up does mention Cox taking the boy's Epipen away to co-erce the MC into working for him, but after the MC gives in Cox then... simply gives the Epipen back.
- Even the scene itself is just the boy passing out before regaining consciousness after having an Epipen jab. No worse than your average Hollywood Heart Attack depiction.
- Even the scene itself is just the boy passing out
- Kills the MC's friend in a Frame-Up, which is bad, but... said plot point was discussed for around 15 minutes before getting dropped when the MC rushed home in tiem for the climax. Even then, said Frame-Up contains one victim.
- Kills one of his mooks for showing conscience. Another common villain trope... Bad Boss / You Have Failed Me / Devour the Dragon / Evil Is Petty / Make an Example of Them ... take your pick.
- In the climax, he overpowers the MC and delivers a No-Holds-Barred Beatdown before getting killed by a conveniently-placed pick. Again, unless the MC is Steven Seagal (the MC is Harrison Ford...), heroes getting overpowered by villains is extremely common.
- He also got an innocent woman fired.
- It's also worth noting that Bill Cox and his minions have pistols and machine-guns, and spends the whole movie... terrorizing a grand total of four people (Harrison Ford and family). Of the three people killed by Cox, two of his victims are his own mooks out of frustration, everybody related to the MC made it alive.
Two other things:
- The 2018 EP posted by futuremoviewriter (1,341 words long) overblows Bill Cox's atrocity, embellishing an otherwise generic villain from a bottom-tier Die-Hard-clone into the next Hans Gruber with selective words like "murders without remorse" and "an emotionless and harsh individual with the God given ability to fabricate having actual feelings"... another issue worth noting, future has moments where he over-emphasizes a candidate's atrocity in an EP, like that time when he made a comedic villain played by Taika Waititi into an absolute monster (Ravok called him out) and the one where he calls a generic crime lord his "strongest keeps ever" for "ruling Bangladesh with an iron fist and throwing the city into chaos" (Scrags called him out).
- He also edited the work and YMMV page years ago, to make Cox sound even worse than he actually is in the film.
...sorry, I probably dragged it overboard a little. Didn't mean to write a novella here, but proposing to cut for "Failing Baseline Standards for the Genre".
BORK
The Buraki example from D-War could use a face-lift.
Old: Buraki is a destructive and malevolent Imoogi who seeks to become an Celestial Dragon in order to destroy Heaven and Earth and rebuild them in his own twisted image. When Heaven had the Yuh Yi Joo hidden inside of an young girl, Buraki had his army invade the girl's village, slaughtering many innocent people, including a young child, in the process, before Buraki chases after the girl himself, leading to her and Haram committing suicide in order to stop him. Returning 500 years later, he slaughters countless innocents out of pure sadism while searching for Sarah Daniels in order to claim the Yuh Yi Joo inside of her. When his forces eventually capture Ethan and Sarah, he attempts to devour the latter and claim the Yuh Yi Joo so he can finally become a Celestial Dragon. When the chosen good Imoogi awakens to fight against him, Buraki gains the upper hand, and mortally wounds him, before attempting to claim the Yuh Yi Joo from Sarah. A monstrous, sadistic Imoogi, who lacks the honorable traits of the rest of his kind, Buraki would kill anyone, including his own followers, in order to become a Celestial Dragon.
New: Buraki is a destructive and malevolent Imoogi who seeks to become a Celestial Dragon in order to destroy Heaven and Earth and rebuild them in his own twisted image. When Heaven had the Yuh Yi Joo hidden inside of a young girl, Buraki had his army invade the girl's village and slaughter its villagers, including a young child, before Buraki chases after the girl himself, leading to her and Haram committing suicide in order to stop him. Returning 500 years later, he slaughters countless innocents out of pure sadism while hunting down Sarah Daniels, the modern reincarnation of the young girl. When his forces eventually capture Ethan and Sarah, he attempts to devour the latter to claim the Yuh Yi Joo. When the chosen good Imoogi awakens to fight him, Buraki gains the upper hand and mortally wounds the noble serpent before resuming his diabolical ambitions. A monstrous, sadistic Imoogi who lacks the honor of his kind, Buraki would kill anyone, including his own followers, in his bloodstained pursuit for divinity.
Any thoughts?
Edited by KJsixteen on Apr 25th 2024 at 5:09:41 AM
Google Snake Game.
pronounced 'Scraggle'
Oh, yeah, the Firewall guy. Yeah, I always kinda had it in mind to cut him because I don't think he's pushing the boundary for the genre. The attempted Family Extermination is the one and only thing that pushes him, but I don't think it's enough when his body count otherwise is almost nothing.
Cut Cox.
Watch for the sign of the Saint — he will be back!
Cut Cox
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Not the Eye
Cut Cox, Keep Aizen.
Fine with the Buraki rewrite and if Lowry and the other Red Dead candidate are approved I'd be fine with keeping the page.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
If we keep Red Dead, should we request to lock it now or wait until the other two are written up if they pass?
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Eh, I'm fine with just waiting. Worst case scenario, we can copy-and-paste from Video Games: Q to S.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
agreed
Snip Cox
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Buraki rewrite
Red Dead page
Abstain on Aizen
I feel like my idea has been rudely and dismissively brushed off without even being taken into consideration.
Edited by LarryT on Apr 25th 2024 at 4:34:09 AM
In honor of Akira Toriyama
Cut Cox, have to admit having seen the film I was always a bit confused he counted and figured it was purely down to it being a pretty realistic thriller.
to Larry's proposed rewrite for Psycho Pass.
Edited by MGD107 on Apr 25th 2024 at 1:47:19 AM
Not the Eye
I remember this already being mentioned, but both comic book pages have too long warning.
Could go either way on Psycho Pass header.
Edited by EmperorGeode on Apr 25th 2024 at 1:50:25 AM
Buraki rewrite. Better than my Intital write up if I have to be honest.
BORK
from Turles The Vegan, Larry T, Michealthehero 21, and Bullman for the Buraki rewrite. Speaking of which, I tweaked it more in the CM Drafts.
Also, thanks Micheal.
Edited by KJsixteen on Apr 25th 2024 at 4:58:58 AM
Google Snake Game.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
I like the Buraki rewrite.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Ultimate Moral Compass
Cut Cox
"No running in the halls!"
Goku Black
Cut cox.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Cut Cox and the header is fine but that feels like an overreaction Larry. People might have just missed it, there’s no need for accusations.
We don’t know if they forced him back into his chair or if he just went back himself
I actually think we do see Aizen being re-arrested in the light novel Can't See Your New World—which IIRC was brought up the last time Aizen was discussed due to the claim that Aizen reveals he killed Kaname Tōsen out of "compassion".
But at the same time the light novel reveals the reason Ichigo Kurosaki was allowed to return to the Human World was because Soul Society was paranoid that Aizen was plotting to use his Hollow form to cause mass-destruction.
In any case, my vote is to Keep Aizen.
Edited by Arawn999 on Apr 25th 2024 at 6:40:04 AM
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
I should’ve phrased that differently, but I wasn’t referring to the people who didn’t vote on it, I was referring to the people who did vote on it but in a needlessly dismissive manner.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m completely okay if it gets rejected but I feel that some people (not everyone) were needlessly rude and dismissive in their posts.
In honor of Akira Toriyama
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]")
Indeed it should be.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread