Trailing punctuation in trope custom titles

I believe we should remove and prohibit trailing punctuation in custom titles for tropes. Allow me to demonstrate.

As You Know, they're all aliens.

This situation takes Why Don't You Just Shoot Him? to its logical extreme.

The only way to stop those from happening is to pothole the trope names, which should be unnecessary. Users can add their own punctuation if they need to.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

I've moved this thread over to Wiki Talk because I've wanted to launch a revision of the Administrivia.How To Make A Custom Title anyway, and this is as good a jumping-off point as anything.

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The main issue with OP is if tropes are supposed to be punctuated as if they are used within a sentence or as a stand-alone title. Consensus is better than arbitrary decisions, so feedback from the community is appreciated while I/we work on this.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

I tend to disagree. You can pothole a trope name in a sentence if you need to (though admittedly, many don't out of ignorance), but there's only one way to make the title appear properly at the top of its own page.

That said, arguments could be made on a case-by-case basis. The ellipsis in As You Know isn't really necessary. Why Don't You Just Shoot Him? is a question, and should have the mark.

I agree, if mostly because I find some of these obnoxious/unneeded and unlikely to make pages more entertaining/easier to read. the ones with exclamation marks at the end in particular, since those don't always have to be an exclamation (who's to say I Resemble That Remark! or [Verb] This! have to be shouted?) Excited Show Title should probably be an exception, for self-demonstrating purpose.

Edited by Piterpicher on Sep 30th 2021 at 5:26:52 PM

Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)

My feeling on all of these (including Excited Show Title) is that the user should be allowed to punctuate them as appropriate for whatever they're writing and not forced to deal with an awkward custom title.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Well, they can with curly brackets or potholes, technically.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

It's much, much easier to add punctuation than to remove it. Why make people jump through the hoops?

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

A lot of end-punctuated titles are unnecessary in my opinion (As You Know, *Bleep*-dammit!, No Real Life Examples, Please!, One, Two, Three, Four, Go!) and others I'm fine with, for self-demonstration purposes (Excited Title! Two-Part Episode Name!, Punctuated! For! Emphasis!).

Potholing to rid punctuation is kinda... uh, redundant? What's the term. An extra step.

I mean, yeah, it's stupid to have to do it. I'm just pointing out that it's possible to do it under the current system.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

I don't think that a blanket ban on punctuation in trope names is necessarily a good idea (if only because there are specific situations where it makes sense to include it, like Punctuated! For! Emphasis!), but I do agree that it's often unnecessary and makes structuring sentences unnecessarily difficult.

I feel like this is just a symptom of the oft-mentioned bigger problem: there seems to be no quality control when it comes to custom title requests whatsoever. I don't know exactly where, but I believe there was a post from a mod not too long ago confirming that the people approving the requests are doing so without any sort of context.

This particular case isn't really really jarring. I think sometimes you have to imagine quotes around the trope name when talking about it in a meta context. It's more jarring when the punctuation changes the context and/or tone of the trope entirely.

Edited by mightymewtron on Oct 18th 2021 at 7:08:12 AM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

There are a few examples where the punctuation at the end makes sense, but the recently-changed Wham Episode and its clones are a perfect case of what not to do.

(Clarification for future readers: it's currently displayed as "Wham Episode!" with an exclamation mark.)

I'm still intending to get that custom title cleanup thread created eventually.

I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.

If someone, for some reason as an option, wanted to keep the punctuation, they can as easily pothole it in. In most cases tropes are part of a sentence, so potholing punctuation out would just be a bigger task. Trope descriptions can be self-demonstrating, but the trope names should just stay neutral.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

To the Pain has an exclamation point at the end for some reason; note that the Trope Namer was not exclaimed.

I think the moderators should note any requests with exclamation points, especially ones that sounds like actual tropes. Pretty sure they once said they know who requests the custom titles, so maybe they'll have the chance to message the person who asks for these and explain this is obnoxious, in order to not be bothered by them in the future.

Edited by Piterpicher on Oct 19th 2021 at 9:04:22 PM

Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)

And I could've sworn You Should Have Died Instead didn't have an exclamation point yesterday...

Note how? The discussion here is hardly conclusive, with opinions generally split on how to handle disputes.

You are correct.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Just write them down? Like "On August 17th, Example requested Wham Episode to have a custom title with an exclamation mark". Based on this ATT. And I know these aren't quite conclusive, but most people do at least seem like against unnecessary ones.

Edited by Piterpicher on Oct 19th 2021 at 10:38:24 AM

Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)

Write them where? What's the difference between that and getting the admins to create an automatic history like the cutlist history (aside from developer time)?

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

1. In some .txt file editable by mods or mod-only forum thread.

2. Can't really say. Not sure if that gives the ability to search for specific users or characters, as the normal cutlist history doesn't (but the thread might not, either). Then again, the .txt file could eventually become too long. I was mostly suggesting this as a short-term solution.

Edited by Piterpicher on Oct 19th 2021 at 11:20:13 AM

Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)

~prettycoolguy just submitted a custom title for We Want Our Idiot Back! to match up with We Want Our Jerk Back!. I've approved it because it doesn't violate any of the rules. Why would I need to write down their request? What does a long-term solution look like?

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

What are the rules for custom titles, actually? Because it sort of seems to be just "anything goes" half the time.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

I guess How to Make a Custom Title will need a discussion (TRS?) and an update.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

We don't need TRS for policy, just the Outdated Paged thread.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness