Values Dissonance/Resonance Cleanup

There is something to that entry, but Values Dissonance isn’t it. Maybe it fits Distanced from Current Events?

SoundCloud

That's more Bowdlerization if anything. However, the dissonance where UK censors found it worth changing before the US censors did might be worth noting.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Fear of driyers have been an thing since before Lilo and Stitch came out.

Edited by Tomodachi on Aug 12th 2020 at 3:39:37 AM

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.

Found this in the YMMV page for "Mid-Life Crustacean"

• Values Dissonance: Granted, the show didn't have a Y7 rating at the time (it later got one in 2007), but it's hard to believe that a children's show with a Y-rating got away with a panty raid scene in its original broadcast. At the time, it was pushing the envelope, but in a time more sensitive to sexual harassment and a lot less forgiving of children being exposed to sexuality too early, it might as well be pornographic.

I know it’s quite surprising for a kids show to have the characters go on a panty raid, but they only go to Mr Krab’s mother’s drawers. And they get reprimanded for it. And this episode is still occasionally rerun on Nick. This episode first aired in 2003.

That example reads to me like it's complaining about modern society, particularly the #MeToo movement.

This says a lot 'bout society. Yet, we live in one.

Cut. Not to mention, Spongebob at the time was not a kid show, but a family show, which is why the first seasons have more of a young adult feel to it.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.

Any porn in a store, am I right?

Seriously, it's really not "pornographic." I saw that scene as a kid and didn't get it was sexual at all; her underwear is more like bloomers than actual panties, and underwear was just a funny thing to kids.

Also, modern kids' shows still have lots of sexual jokes. My professor was literally talking today about a Teen Titans Go! episode where Beast Boy apparently laid naked on a bed for Raven.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Bringing up this example from The Producers:

• Values Dissonance: Viewers in the 2000s onwards may be confused as to why in the original film and remake that people would go to a play titled "Springtime for Hitler" and have the gall to be offended. Before home entertainment, it was common for people to go to a show that they know they would hate for the spectacle. Not that it doesn't happen nowadays, but it's less common when people can just do it from home and spend less time and money in the process.

I call this one bullshit. I don't believe it.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.

Found this on YMMV.The Dukes Of Hazzard.

• Values Dissonance: Aside from the shameless amount of female objectification with Daisy, the show reeks of southern pride, which has largely fallen out of style in the decades since its broadcast now that real-life nationalism in the South has become synonymous with white supremacy. The worst offender is easily the General Lee, which is not only named for a Confederate leader (you know, the guys who started a war to keep the slave trade going?) but also proudly displays the Confederate flag, itself now recognized more as a symbol of white supremacy and segregation than of patriotism. It was bad enough to get the show permanently pulled from syndication in The New '10s.

It’s openly discriminating against a huge part of the US and using the fact they happen to be the American South in order to justify it. Permission to pull?

Well, whether it's accurate or not, it does violate the ROCEJ.

SoundCloud

I dunno, I think part of it is valid; there is a very different tone towards Confederate symbols nowadays in light of movements to remove celebratory imagery of the Confederacy. The fact it was pulled from syndication due to this heightened controversy supports the idea that we have different values than we did during its original airing. It's not "southern pride" that's Values Dissonance, but the Confederacy definitely is.

Edited by mightymewtron on Aug 13th 2020 at 6:45:10 AM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

My post would perhaps have been more accurate to say "as written". I agree that the core is valid.

SoundCloud

I think the entry could be rephrased to say that it's the show's usage of Confederate iconography that's become problematic, since people are now more willing to criticize the Confederacy for their attempts to uphold slavery.

Granted, I know that's a touchy subject, but with stuff like the military banning the flying of Confederate flags and the recent demonstrations involving tearing down Confederate statues, it's clearly an issue that's taken a bit more seriously in the present day.

This is on YMMV.Clifford The Big Red Dog:

• Values Dissonance: "Clifford Cleans His Doghouse" tries to teach a lesson that something that looks like garbage or useless trash might be someone else`s treasure, with Clifford refusing to throw anything away that has the slightest trace of a happy memory. However, from another perspective Clifford seems to come off as having a hoarding disorder, an issue that has become more known in the decade following the episodes original airing.

That sounds more like Alternate Character Interpretation, nothing about the example discusses a change in values, but a character interpretation.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.

YMMV.Danganronpa Trigger Happy Havoc:

• Chihiro crossdressed to avoid ridicule for his girlish appearance, physical weakness, and sensitive personality. But he didn't find himself happy because all he wanted was to be acknowledged as a boy and he believed that the only way that would happen was if he was stronger. Such an idea would go over the heads of, and is misunderstood by many Western fans, especially since gender roles in the West are nowhere near as strict or enforced as they are in Japan.

Is the West really lax about gender roles for men? I think that if it's true, the term "toxic masculinity" wouldn't be a trend, and In Touch with His Feminine Side says that "The Sensitive Guy in Sensitive Guy and Manly Man is somewhat arguably less socially acceptable in its extreme forms (Double Standard strikes again, more severely this time, due to most western societies, particularly the United States, placing greater emphasis on masculinity over femininity)".

In certain ways Japan may be more strict about gender roles but the entry is kind of vague and doesn't really explain the dissonance enough. Nothing tells me how gender roles are stricter in Japan to the point a boy would crossdress to feel happier, or why a Western boy wouldn't try to do the same.

From the little I know about DR, I worry it may be a stealthy way to complain about fans headcanoning Chihiro as a transgender girl (even if it is technically a Misaimed Fandom in some cases).

Much better explanation. The example on the DR page should be updated with that context.

Edited by mightymewtron on Aug 15th 2020 at 5:56:46 AM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

ValuesDissonance.Video Games:

• In Japanese media, crossdressers are sometimes viewed as transgender by Western audiences, with Naoto Shirogane from Persona 4 and Chihiro Fujisaki from Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc being the most prominent examples of this issue, as a handful of Western fans insist that they are trans despite canon saying otherwise. This is due to misunderstanding their problems in regards to Japanese culture; in Japan, it is extremely important for a person to conform to social norms. If they don't conform enough or act in a way that is against it, they are shamed for it or not taken seriously. Naoto was insecure about her femininity because she wanted to pursue a career in a male-dominated field but knew they would dismiss her skills if they knew she was a girl. So she crossdressed in order to make sure that didn't happen. Chihiro was constantly bullied because he was too frail and shy to be considered a real boy by Japanese standards, and started cross dressing as a means of escape since his personality was seen more proper for a female, not because he identified as such. Both are examples of individuals who couldn't live up to the gender standards of Japan and had to find a way to conform to it instead.

I think the "conform to social norms" bit makes it legitimate Values Dissonance. The original entry that was brought up should be focusing more on that and less on gender roles specifically.

Edited by nrjxll on Aug 15th 2020 at 4:43:49 AM

How's this?

• Western fans insist that Chihiro is a transgender girl even though the trial of Chapter 2 makes it clear that he merely crossdresses to avoid ridicule for his femininity. This is due to misunderstanding his problems in regards to Japanese culture; in Japan, it is extremely important for a person to conform to social norms. If they don't conform enough or act in a way that is against it, they are shamed for it or not taken seriously.

I'm Japanese, but I've never experienced the pressure to conform. I don't know what to do.

Found this on House of Mouse:

• Values Resonance: One episode is about Mortimer impersonating a restaurant critic, treating everyone like a slave and making ridiculous demands to the staff to get freebies. In the age where people impersonate Internet critics so they don’t have to pay and treat the owners like dirt, it has aged pretty darn well.

That's a stretch, and that's always been a thing. Cut it.

Rock'n'roll never dies!

Found this on Other:

• Newspaper Comics have fallen victim of this since the 1970's, often regarded as the poster example for media being set in an America not too different from the one of yesteryear (take note this is just referring to North America, and not even referring to the conspicuous lack of black, let alone minority characters) with attempts to modernize strips (more often by the syndicates than by the artists) not doing much to avoid getting them out from the den of obsolescence (to put it short: things funny or at least amusing to people raised up until the early 60s is either too tame or even offensive to those born after the mid-50s).

Edited by fragglelover on Aug 22nd 2020 at 8:14:31 AM

Way too general, and that's not even a phenomenon exclusive to newspaper comics.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.