Ron the Death Eater Cleanup

Reposting from "Is this an example?":

On The Owl House, under Ron the Death Eater:

• Odalia and Alador Blight get this more than anyone. While it's true that they're Abusive Parents, they've only ever been shown being emotionally abusive and manipulative, yet their actions will often be conflated to include physical abuse and occasionally homophobia.
  • Between the two of them, Odalia gets it the worst. Thanks to Word of God stating that Amity dyes her hair because Odalia wants all of her children to match, she's often labeled as the primary abuser between the two. "Escaping Expulsion" further reinforced this mentality among people for how it showed that she does, indeed, call the shots in the family, for how she was unwilling to keep her word about letting Luz and her friends go back to school, and for how she was willing to kill Luz to sell her Abomitons.

So I do think it counts if an abusive character is exaggerated to be even more abusive in an OOC way. But I don't get the Odalia sub-bullet. Odalia is clearly depicted as the primary abuser in canon, especially in the Season 2 finale, where she's willing to let everyone die to further her business and even her husband calls her out. There's no fandom exaggeration in that regard, it's just canon. Alador's DILP entry has a similar thing going on, as his behavior did line up with the fandom interpretation eventually, it's just a matter of whether his early portrayal in Amity's memories is covered up.

I feel the first bullet is valid, yet the sub-bullet isn't for the reasons you stated.

On Fallout: New Vegas on Draco in Leather Pants under a thing for the Legion as a whole

• Vulpes Inculta. You first meet the man just after he has finished his memorably brutal and frightening ransacking of Nipton as an example of the Legion's might, and his blasé attitude and Creepy Monotone perfectly sets the tone for the character. Then the next time you see him (provided you didn't fight and kill him in Nipton) he approaches you on The Strip to extend an invitation to meet Caesar, dressed in a civilian suit and his voice more smooth than creepy. Unlike a lot of examples of this trope, most of Inculta's fans embrace his evil nature rather than dismiss it.

If they just embrace his evilness isn't that just Evil Is Cool?

Yeah, as a Draco in Leather Pants entry, it's shoehorning; it involves fans of character dialing down their evil or controversial aspects, not when a character with those qualities is well-liked. Therefore, this is Evil Is Cool instead since they embrace his villainy.

Sorry if this is not the place to ask, but is there any special permission to add an example, or any timeout?

Nope, you can add examples at any time, and you don't need permission, although if you want to pass it trough the thread to see if it works, you can.

From YMMV.Amphibia:

• Unfortunately, despite her vast popularity among the fandom as well as being a Nice Girl who is firmly on the side of good, Marcy herself has gotten this ever since The Reveal that she knew what The Calamity Box would do and got herself along with Anne and Sasha trapped in Amphibia on purpose in "True Colors". While many fans sympathize and felt bad for Marcy over the unfortunate circumstances that have befallen on her, others have demonized her here and there by saying that "she can just as bad or even worse than Sasha in selfishness, her faith in True Colors was deserved, and she should've acted logically in talked to Anne and Sasha about her problems like a normal person". This makes it even worse as Marcy was considered autistic coded long before being Diagnosis of God. Which makes it even more demonizing to say that a girl with ADHD and Autism to act logically, and should've sat down and talked to her friends like a normal person in her situation.

I'm not disputing that this may count as RTDE, but my concern is the way it approaches autism and ADHD, basically acting like it's unrealistic or unfair to expect someone who is neurodivergent to act with logic. That makes me uncomfortable, as someone who is autistic...and tends to think a little overly logical at times. This whole thing is written from the perspective that Marcy's actions should not be criticized because she's neurodivergent, which just feels slightly icky to me. Like I said, I'm not here to dispute on whether or not the character was demonized as a result of this reveal — it's the way this example is written and framed that I take issue with. Is it just me?

Also, I forget why this isn't in Long Term. Should I move it?

Edited by WarJay77 on Oct 22nd 2023 at 1:21:16 PM

No, I agree it's definitely written with an overly personal bent towards the end when it should be focused on collective opinions without editorialization.

I'd personally remove

I'd honestly replace it with sentences that mention that Sasha's actions in Season 1 are far worse and more actively malicious. And that's true even when you don't consider her Fridge Horror implied order/apathy of letting everyone in Wartwood die (again, just Season 1).

You should definitely bring up that it was her idea to tarnish Hop Pop and eventually have him killed.

Edited by AudioSpeaks2 on Oct 22nd 2023 at 11:42:21 AM

YMMV.Willy Wonka And The Chocolate Factory

• Ron the Death Eater:
  • Grandpa Joe. In the film, he's portrayed as a kindly old man and sort of a mentor figure to Charlie. The fandom, however, portrays him as a cabbage water-guzzling deadbeat who faked having a disability and never lifted a finger to help his starving family despite being perfectly able to, only finally climbing out of bed when a day of chocolate and fun is involved. People also take issue that Grandpa Joe, who stayed in bed for two decades, got to go to the factory instead of the hard-working Mrs. Bucket. Some exaggerate it by theorizing that he was the mastermind behind numerous historical atrocities. Charlie and the Chocolate Factory rectifies this by establishing that Grandpa Joe worked at Wonka's factory before Wonka laid off his entire workforce, and was unable to find further employment. This also gives Grandpa Joe a better reason to accompany Charlie to the factory since he knows more about it than the others.
  • Willy Wonka gets this as well: his infamously furious rant at Charlie, his seeming lack of safety standards in his factory, moments of manipulative trickery, and lack of concern for his charges when they act make a lot of people see him as a psychopathic slavedriver who revels in child murder.

Regarding Grandpa Joe, his example isn't considering his Adaptational Jerkassery in this movie; with the snide remarks he makes at the other kids and the fact he swayed Charlie to steal Wonka's fizzy lifting drinks and almost getting himself and Charlie killed. There might be some exaggeration with his character, but he's not exactly the saint like the example claims. The 2005 film also dosen't really have anything to do with how fans protray him here.

Willy Wonka on the other hand, it isn't explained how he's portrayed in the film.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Nov 12th 2023 at 4:16:06 AM

Wonka I'd say is a tricky one. There are actual clues that he may have intended to lose kids along the way, and that makes people think of him as a sociopath because it's a reading that's actually supported by the movie. Like, you can go in with that interpretation and it probably makes more sense. IDK if it's RTDE though because it's honestly unclear how Wonka is meant to be taken as a character because so many of the details don't add up.

I don't think Grandpa Joe was meant to be an Adaptational Jerkass; I think he was just meant to be seen as the fun grandpa that at one point steers Charlie into making a bad choice. The rest of the movie portrays him as a nice guy that we're supposed to like.

Edited by WarJay77 on Nov 12th 2023 at 7:20:36 AM

Not going to touch the Grandpa Joe entry, since I'm not familiar with the fandom (though I have seen the "he was pretending to be disabled just to lie around in bed" complaint), but "Wonka is a psychopath" is common enough to be a Stock Parody Joke. It shows up in loads of parodies like Epic Movie or Futurama.

Edited by DoktorvonEurotrash on Nov 13th 2023 at 5:34:30 AM

I have seen portrayals of Grandpa Joe as 'evil', very exaggerated evil at that (saying he was a major contributor to various fascist movements for example), so I'd say that Grandpa Joe fits the criteria.

That's more Memetic Psychopath though.

Grandpa Joe gets a lot of comical hatred that feels like valid RTDE as he's meant to be a supportive fun-loving grandpa. It's Memetic Psychopath but some who do genuinely hate him I think. Wonka seems less exaggerated and more Alternative Character Interpretation but he is meant to be well intentioned, right?

Edited by mightymewtron on Nov 13th 2023 at 1:54:21 PM

Some do genuinely hate him. I just think that we need to separate the "Grandpa Joe is a war criminal" stuff with the "Grandpa Joe is a bad person who faked sick and only cares about himself" stuff. The second is legit RTDE but the first is Memetic Psychopath.

It's kind of unclear how well-intentioned Wonka actually is. That's the issue. He's nice to Charlie but his character is so ambiguous besides that.

Edited by WarJay77 on Nov 13th 2023 at 2:00:04 PM

Yeah wonka is meant to be really hard to read, that's the point of the cane gimmick in his Establishing Character Moment

Edited by Khoshekh6 on Nov 13th 2023 at 3:06:20 AM