Needs Help: The The Title

It appears to have decayed from the original definition of

There is an excess of The-s in the title

To:

It may be due to the name having emphasis on the "The", making it seem like all that matters, unlike its redirects The The The and The The The The.

The TLP version's, and the current, description has:

Which makes it seem like "Titles starting with 'The'" is the trope, since, if the point of the trope is the excessive 'the'-s, mentioning it being in excess is redundant.

If there is Trope Decay, and we approve of this new definition, then this is just to officially state that the "Title starts with a "The"" is the definition of this trope. Otherwise, a clean-up is in order.

Examples of works who are entered only because they start with "The", is from 5th Apr '15 7:49:35 AM Menshevik, who added

There are 141 wicks and 311 inbounds.

edited 27th Jan '18 4:12:27 PM by Malady

I disagree about the redundancy with "excessive number of definitive articles." There is a difference between "too many" and "excessive," namely two definitive articles right next to each other is "too many" but it is in no way "excessive."

Regardless, though, I think we already have "Double, Double" Title for cases where a single word is repeated (such as ''Attack of The The Eye Monsters" or something). It's a more recent trope, but I don't really see a point in having such a specific trope as the original draft for The The Title.

I do have a further concern with this, though, and that's whether this trope is supposed to be about a consistent naming scheme for a serial work or if stand-alone works that just so happen to start with the definititve article can count for this trope as well. Is that particularly tropeable or is that just chairs? Related question: is starting the title with the indefinite article (like in "A New England Nun") tropeworthy? Would it be counted under The The Title due to flexibility?

Correction: "Double, Double" Title is for strict copies...

I guess this trope is having the same problem as Always V Sexy—that is, it's way too common to be a trope and it has tons of Zero Context Examples.

- Well, having a "The", makes a implication that a specific instance of a noun is relevant to the plot. Or just for emphasis, which is still a valid meaning that turns a pattern that is Chairs, into a pattern that is a trope?

"An Army", vs. "The Army".

Basically the whole point of Definite Articles?

Could rename to Definite Article Title to generalize?

edited 13th Mar '18 8:04:03 PM by Malady

- Bump, 'cause the trope will keep accruing examples, so better get to handling this?

Administrivia.No Trope Is Too Common: "There is no such thing as any potential trope being too common to make an actual trope."

edited 1st Jun '18 5:58:12 PM by Malady

Definite Article Title would provide a contrast to One-Word Title.

The idea of "excessive" (at least three in the name?) sounds like a trope, but it doesn't look like there's any examples left of that. The majority of examples are two-word titles, where one of the words is simply THE.

The laconic is not in line with what the description says. The trope is described as creators with a suspiciously high amount of their works starting with a "The".

- Yes, 'cause it sorta decayed from that, into the current...

Although, as the TLP shows, it started as holding two tropes. "Multiple The-s" and "'The' starts the title".

^ Not seeing the dual nature of the draft. Where is the line about multiple "the" in the title? It started out (and I would advocate to keep it that way) as a preference of certain creator's to start their works with "The".

The trope title is clumsy though. Something like "The" Title Addiction would be more indicative.

There's two sections in that TLP:

• Examples of titles with too many 'The's
• Examples of titles that all, or mostly, begin with the word 'the'

- That's a good one, for the original intent.

Personal Plan: Split into the two tropes The Title Addiction and Definite Article Title, and make the current trope a disambig into both of those.

The The The and The The The The redirect to The Title Addiction, or are cut.

edited 2nd Jun '18 5:14:55 PM by Malady

Both variants will have close to zero examples after a clean up. So TLP is advisable. I am not convinced that the "multiple the in a title" is substantial enough for a trope to begin with.

- That TLP I linked, was the one that was for The The Title...

What do you mean? There's tons of Definite Article Title... It's any work or episode, that begins with "The", in English.

Given that most examples of The The Title are already examples, it'd just basically be needing a move.

What would a cleanup really be doing? Adding context? Like One-Word Title's examples should have, you mean?

Indefinite Article Title would be more interesting, but that's a separate topic.

The Title Addiction, would be a harder find, however?

• The The: A band in The '80s.

[WesternAnimation.Aqua Teen Hunger Force actually doesn't have an example. There's just an Episode named "The".]

edited 3rd Jun '18 4:31:07 AM by Malady

I misunderstood the idea for your second trope Definite Article Title. Having a work start with "The" is at best an Omnipresent Tropes and at worst chairsy. But there needs to be a crowner to decide its fate.

My suggested course of action for current trope:

• Rename non-indicative trope title (to "The" Title Addiction or Serial "The" Title or similar)
• Adjust laconic
• Clean out examples with stand-alone works starting with "The" (also clean up wicks)
• Kill redirects The The The and The The The The

edited 3rd Jun '18 2:38:33 AM by eroock

- Omnipresent... I wouldn't say it's that popular... And Chairs-y, yes, but not Chairs.

Titles are basically always intentional and have meaning.

The meaning of a "The", is the fact of definite articles, labelling a specific instance of an object to be of interest.

edited 3rd Jun '18 8:48:17 AM by Malady

Honestly, the "multiple definite articles in a title" could be expanded to include other glaringly incorrect grammar issues in titles. "Title Without A Proofreader" for example. The current trope is oddly specific to the definite article, possibly because of the film Attack of the The Eye Creatures (see the TLP draft for why I think that).

For the idea of Definite Article Title, I think it ought to be expanded so as to include the indefinite article because both articles convey specific meanings in English (e.g. a specific instance or a general group, respectively). (In)Definite Article Title would be my suggestion for the name.

edited 3rd Jun '18 9:48:09 AM by WaterBlap

- (In)DefiniteArticleTitle - I find the idea, interesting, but I don't think it'd go over well, as it's fitting a trope and its inversion together...

Although, Indefinite Article Titles are rare enough to go together with Definite Article Titles?

If they both had a good number of examples, I'd want them to be split...

And if they were split, we'd have naming issues, wanting to turn In Definite Article Title into a disambig...

No, best to keep them separate, but crosswicking to each other.

Article Title would be a nice name for the combination of both tropes? But a bit confusing?

That is not necessarily an inversion. Definite and indefinite articles don't always convey opposite meanings (e.g. a literature vs. the literature).

- True... But I still don't want to put them together under that name, as any future splits would be tricky.

This trope is WAY too common in general.

Protagonist is "too common". That's still a trope with a page. Can you explain what action should be taken with a trope this common?

Not list examples but still have the page.

I agree, I think any examples would be rather self-demonstrative. There is no need to point them out.

And, as mentioned above, there would be too many examples to list anyway.