Do You Care If Your Shojo Has a "Strong Female Lead"?

-shrugs- I have no idea. I was told to ask stuff like this in here?

Does it matter to you if the main heroine is "strong?" This is something that comes up again an\d again as a criticism of the shojo anime and manga. People complain the main heroine is too dependent on men. Yet it keeps happening and these series keep being popular...

I've not read that many shojo - indeed, I am planning to read more next month which led me to reading a lot of discussions on good series and thus this complaint came up a lot - but I did enjoy Fushigi Yuugi. It had problems but Miaka not being a fighter was not among them, at least for me.

I mean I like strong characters period. I define a strong character as one with a well-defined personality that I can believe is an actual person, rather than just a prop for the plot. Strong female leads would be nice, considering how infrequent those tend to be.

Like I said, just make her able to stand up for herself.

That's why I gave up on Good Morning Call; because the female lead had less spine than Rio De Janeiro has snow.

I may add more later, but first thing is: I can only care about a romance both halves have some kind of character reciprocity. And to have that, you need two characters. I don't care for bland, inoffensive protagonists where you get essentially a romance between the love interest and the reader.

To add to this: many of these romances make their protagonist bland and inoffensive so that the viewer can see themselves in her, then put all the actual character traits on the love interest(s). Otome game adaptations take this to the extreme.

Aside from limiting the story, this gives the impression that a woman has to be conformist and reserved to find love. This is reflected in a lot of dating advice, and it simply doesn't match what men or indeed lesbians find attractive.

Note that many harem shows have a bland and timid male lead, but then joke about how pathetic he is. It is seen as a flaw in boys, but acceptable in girls.

It is rather sad, but that's society's status quo. Deep roots cannot be simply removed with simple plucking. It takes time. While LGBT communities have played a huge role in changing gender stereotypes, they still have lots to do. Until now, male=strong and aggressive; female=weak and submissive

I think a huge part of the reason why these M Cs are so popular is that they represent an ignored aspect in our society where the 'normal' doesn't jive with some people. For example, if a guy who is naturally a meek person wishes to meet girls but simply cannot or doesn't have the guts to approach one can simply self-insert himself into an anime where the MC is like him, meek and submissive. The difference is that the fictional MC is loved and accepted for the way he is, no matter how abnormal it would seem in the real world. I dunno. Maybe I'm wrong or tunnel-visioned. Please correct me if it is so.

In short, it is okay to be a spineless character in that fictional world, so that's why these harem self-inserts are labeled with an automatic negative bias. You like harem? Then you'll be seen as desperate and perverted, even though you simply like the genre.

Do I care what happens to the main character? If not, then I will likely invoke Eight Deadly Words.

I looked through the the Shōjo Demographic list for series I recognize, and then briefly asked myself, "Is the main character interesting? Are they capable of handling problems in their story?" For some examples, my answer was yes. Even for stories where the character never fights anyone, or engages in a competitive activity.

Not every shoujo main character should be subjected to Xenafication. Also, I do not think that leads in other demographic stories need to be badass. Sometimes it's appropriate if the character is not good at dealing with their situation.

I know that people have bought and enjoyed romance stories in which a heroine is spineless, or in which she is just a cipher for the audience. I would not be surprised if some fans choose to ignore the heroine and instead focus on the hero(es). I would also not be surprised if some fans choose not to buy / stop purchasing stories if they dislike the heroine, or if they think she's forgettable.

The Girl-Show Ghetto is a problem throughout the world. I don't know the extent of which romance fiction is considered a ghetto. Shoujo demographic manga series still get published, and get adapted into other media. Likewise, there are similar published stories for girls/women in other nations. However, I get the impression that women's fiction is often considered somewhere between forgettable and Snark Bait. Yes, I am aware that like every other format and genre of fiction, it is affected by Sturgeon's Law.

edited 1st Jan '17 10:10:52 PM by dorkatlarge

That depends no what you mean by strong.

Have agency, have development and have an attachment to characters beyond 'He's cute?' Yes.

Be an Action Girl or similar? No. She could be a Guile Hero for all I care, or could even be something like a Motherly Scientist Science Hero who also happens to be a A Mother to Her Men and works with a unit of soldiers who get samples for her.

Both are quite capable of development - a Guile Heroine could literally develop by adapting new ways, finding herself fail but still finding ways to work around, with and against humans without weapons. A Science Heroine could put out something new, get awards and make some major breakthrough.

Just let them have their own agency, let them develop and let them have relationships beyond what we've come to expect.

Hell, you could even mix up the regular tropes and make her the Guile Heroine who is The Heart and The Chick, and knows how to play to people through what she does.

edited 2nd Jan '17 7:41:57 AM by RatherRandomRachel

You seem to be confusing "strong character" with "action hero". In a romance, there is no need for the protagonist to be a guile hero or remarkable in any discipline; mostly they need some kind of chemistry, as we call it, with their love interest(s). That calls for sublter character traits than heroics. For me, "strong" here means that

1) They are unique, in some way, and contrast with the rest of the cast.

2) They have an effect on the plot or the other characters, such that if you switched them the story would be different.

I can honestly say I've seen some shoujo and harem protagonists who could be switched around with hardly any effects.

You misread what I said.

Have a read again - I'm not making that mistake, I'm just referring to people who do.

Gender doesn't concern me in a character. Personality, development, uniqueness, and just plain ol' Rule of Cool determines how much I like a character.