WrongGenreSavvy cleanup

So a while back we had a couple of good, well-supported cleanup efforts that reined in the mess that was Genre Savvy and merged its bastard steptrope Dangerously Genre-Savvy back into it. The problem was that Genre Savvy is supposed to mean "is knowledgeable about story tropes and applies this knowledge to the situations they find themselves in as a character in a story," but it was being misused to mean, "is not a complete idiot." Essentially, people were forgetting the "genre" part and just using it to mean "savvy about anything, ever."

All well and good; now I'd like to take a similar look at the common misuse of Genre Savvy's Sister Trope, Wrong Genre Savvy. Wrong Genre Savvy is supposed to mean "is knowledgeable about story tropes and applies this knowledge to the situations they find themselves in, but is mistaken about which genre's tropes actually apply." The classic example (given in the trope description) is someone who believes they're in a horror story and refuses to invite a stranger inside because they might be a vampire, but it turns out they're in a fairy tale and will be punished for turning them away.

Much like Genre Savvy, however, tropers often forget about the "genre" part and use Wrong Genre Savvy to refer to anyone who is wrong about anything, ever. I propose the following criteria for determining misuse:

• A character IS Wrong Genre Savvy if they:
  • Act a certain way due to knowledge of the genre conventions of in-universe fiction. A telltale sign of this— not 100% required, but a strong supporting argument— is actually saying something like, "Just like in the movies!"

AND

• Are mistaken about the applicability of these genre conventions to the story they're actually in, because they're in a story of a different genre than the in-universe fiction they're familiar with.
• Additionally, for full context, an example must describe the result of this confusion. "[Character] thinks they're in [genre] when they're actually in [other genre]" is a Zero Context Example.

• A character IS NOT Wrong Genre Savvy if they:
  • Have an overall demeanor that's opposed to the general tone of the work, e.g. an idealist in a cynical work, unless their demeanor is based on in-universe fiction. A dead giveaway for this one is the presence of Weasel Words like "[character] seems to think he's in [genre]."
  • Take certain actions due to personal experience. E.g. a character who refuses to invite a stranger inside in case they are a vampire, because they have actually encountered vampires before and are wary of them, is not Wrong Genre Savvy no matter whether the stranger is actually a vampire or not.
  • Act as though they were in Real Life. Because fiction is Like Reality, Unless Noted, we can safely assume that the existence of vampires is not public knowledge unless it's established otherwise; therefore a character reacting to an apparent vampire bite victim by searching for a mundane explanation such as a non-supernatural serial killer with a vampire fixation isn't Wrong Genre Savvy.
  • Are correct about the applicability of genre conventions in general, but incorrect about a specific situation in particular. E.g. if Bob doesn't expect Vampy the Vampire to enter his house because he has not invited Vampy, but Vampy is able to enter because Bob's roommate Alice has already invited Vampy unbeknownst to Bob, then Bob is not Wrong Genre Savvy. The expected genre convention still applies, Bob is just misinformed on the details of this specific application of them.
  • Are correct about which genre they're in and take inspiration from in-universe fiction, but incorrect about a specific situation due to work-to-work variance in the application of genre conventions. E.g., because Our Vampires Are Different, vampires in Bob's vampire movies need an invitation, but actual vampires he meets do not.

Does that all make sense? Did I miss anything, or does anything need further clarification?

edited 9th Dec '16 4:15:18 PM by HighCrate

Hmm, I'd add that if the work breaks it's own genre's conventions (vampires don't need an invitation in this 'verse), then the character's not Wrong Genre Savvy. More like Genre Savvy But Wrong. :)

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

Excellent breakdown, and a good addition from ~xtifr

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

I will add what opinions I can to this endeavor, because I've been guilty of not understanding it in the past as well.

I removed the following entry from WrongGenreSavvy.Fan Fic (leaving a link to this cleanup thread in the edit history), which was then restored by troper iroanxi with no edit reason:

• This Bites!: You'd think that Cross would know about one of the darkest films in One Piece, ever...
  • Captain Sharinguru thinks himself a comicbook hero and that the Straw Hats are the villains. Conis reminds him that everyone is the hero of their own story right before blasting him.

The first bullet point gives almost no context. Why would this Cross person be expected to know about a certain One Piece film? What happens because he doesn't? What genre conventions does he believe apply that don't?

Besides being bad Example Indentation, the second bullet point is at least a little better, but it still doesn't give enough context. Does Captain Sharinguru believe himself a comic book hero because he reads too many comic books? What genre conventions does he believe apply that he's proven wrong about?

I re-deleted and left a note for iroanxi to join us here if they wish to discuss it.

edited 11th Dec '16 6:02:31 AM by HighCrate

^ I'd agree with that cut. Doesn't give much evidence as to why the character is this trope.

I tried arguing this on the discussion page, but I have to reiterate: People who act as if they're in a different genre/subgenre of story but aren't Leaning on the Fourth Wall about it seem to be common enough and have enough significance as a storytelling device that we should do SOMETHING with it.

"That's ridiculous. What would a walrus do with a magic bag?" Pokeamida

If it's a one-off occurrence, Out-of-Genre Experience could be a good fit.

As a character trait, it MIGHT be worth starting a TRS to see if it could be made into something, but it would have to be handled VERY carefully to avoid being a shoehorning magnet. Out-of-Genre Experience uses a Spotlight Episode focused on a member of the cast who's a doctor turning into a Medical Drama as an example, which is fine, but that doesn't mean that any doctor character not in a Medical Drama is an Out-of-Genre-Character. And you just know that's exactly the kind of shoehorning that people would make a beeline for.

Either way, shoehorning it into Wrong Genre Savvy and promoting Genre Savvy misuse by association isn't a good solution.

edited 16th Dec '16 2:57:21 PM by HighCrate

There doesn't have to be any fourth-wall awareness for a character to be Genre Savvy or Wrong Genre Savvy. Fourth Wall Awareness means that they know they're in a work of some nature.

The "Savvy"s only require that they be aware that genre conventions exist and be able to recognize a similarity between their current situation and those conventions.

There's quite a difference between those.

edited 16th Dec '16 3:17:39 PM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

I didn't say Fourth Wall Awareness. Leaning on the Fourth Wall is about drawing attention to the fictional nature of the medium and aspects related to that without actually violating the audience/media separation, usually through conversations that make sense in context but sound like they're about the show/whatever. I'd... also argue that although Wrong Genre Savvy was applied extremely broadly, the current definition is possibly too narrow — there's a bare handful of examples, as specifically speaking in genre conventions rather than just acting as if you're in a different genre than you are or misunderstanding your position within the story is... not very common and as a storytelling trope doesn't really establish anything more significant than "this character is a huge fan of certain media and kinda weird."

"That's ridiculous. What would a walrus do with a magic bag?" Pokeamida

It's less common than Genre Savvy and more common than The Yellow M Shout Out.

edited 12th Jun '17 1:01:14 PM by crazysamaritan

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

A critical requirement for all of the Genre Savvy tropes is that the character must apply knowledge of fictional tropes to their current situation. It is not required that they know they're in a story, but rather that they have knowledge of story conventions from their own In-Universe experiences and attempt to relate them to the events they find themselves in.

It is very easy to confuse genre savviness with common sense, as the latter is all too lacking in fictional characters, but they're not the same thing.

I would be curious to see examples of someone who is "speaking in genre conventions" without that being either a form of In-Universe awareness of tropes or Breaking the Fourth Wall.

edited 12th Jun '17 1:43:16 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Double Post: Was the OP aware of this projects thread, which seems to duplicate the effort?

edited 12th Jun '17 2:01:15 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Yes; I've largely jumped over to that thread at this point.