Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite

If you're willing to believe Project X Zone, various franchises from Namco, Capcom, and SEGA all inhabit the same world and others don't.

On the subject of DLC characters and wanting to differentiate them, it occurs to me they could try to switch things up by having Black Widow use batons like in a lot of Marvel's recent media and merch featuring her.

Speaking of dlc. Why didn't BP or MH go with the rest of the characters to help take down Ultron Sigma?

That would mean making them playable I think.

Because that's not a Wakanda problem. That's a somewhere else problem.

You see, the problem is “Over There”, and it’s not here in Wakanda. So “Over There” has to deal with the problem on its own.

I understood that reference, even though it's DC.

Yeah, I'm still not seeing why story is god awful as everyone is making it out be. As far I'm concern Injustice 2 is only better by default since it actually has beginning, middle, & end. MVC only had middle & end.

@ Luminosity

Here's your double Utron Sigma:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXDkC0T3Yvo&feature=youtu.be

edited 25th Sep '17 8:14:12 PM by agent-trunks

The story may not necessarily be awful but it is underwhelming & plain.

It has some good parts but it is in the end not good, its mediocre to decent.

At least a good amount of the cast of Injustice 2 did something memorable. Black Adam & Aquaman's chapter is one of my favorite parts of the game.

People are making a big deal about the story because everything surrounding the game made a big deal about the story.

It wasn't just "let's piggyback off of Injustice", it was also the first Mv C game with an actual, focused on plotline^note And I imagine people who were burned by the promise and disappointment of MVC 3 supposedly having a tie-in plot that wasn't in the actual game in any capacity were somewhat more invested in Infinite attempting to reconcile that., which honestly never sounded like it'd be an inherently bad idea, especially given Marvel's (and the comic book industry's) pedigree. Plus its announcement came pretty much out of nowhere, when people weren't expecting the franchise to ever come back after the Disney/Marvel merger forced MVC 3 and the other previous entries to disappear for a long while.

Additionally, the initial roster was said to be dictated by the storyline, so even people who didn't care about a story at all were somewhat interested. Then we ended up with what we did, and well...

And this is before getting into the large amount of ill will Capcom seems to have generated over the past couple (few?) years, as well as peoples' seemingly growing apathy for the Marvel Cinematic Universe and everything associated with it.

In the end, even though the story is at worst exceedingly average and not nearly as daring as it could be, it gets shit on so much because its mediocrity ends up hurting the game's overall image, compounding upon other issues like the off-model characters, poor voice direction for much of the cast, the bizarre DLC practices (even from the Greed standpoint of "they'll pay for new characters", it feels like a really stupid idea), and the MCU-focused roster for the Marvel side (while the Capcom side gets sneered at for feeling way too "safe" and questionable^note As an example (and in an attempt to levy this at someone other than Spencer, Firebrand, and Arthur): this is probably just me, but deep down I feel like Morrigan's in the game partially to fulfill some sort "sexy character" requisite, because—like most of the Capcom cast—she barely gets any relevance in the story, and the one thing she has (some sort of relationship with Jedah) feels incredibly shoehorned in, especially to anyone who's more familiar with her role in the Darkstalkers lore, and never goes anywhere. I say this because she just seems to stand out more from a design perspective, unlike UMVC 3, which had more female characters and a "sexy character" equivalent on the Marvel side (She-Hulk). Granted, if the Marvel Black Widow DLC is true, this'll become a somewhat moot musing. :P, with no one really standing out other than X and Sigma, the latter of whom isn't even playable now).

As for me, I found the story alright. It felt like watching a long episode based on one of the recent Marvel cartoons, but had playable fights instead of commercial breaks. There were a couple of moments I enjoyed, although a lot of those moments didn't seem to be deliberate. To be honest, I feel like some of the issues could be solved with a future story update that takes more care with its writing and characterization, because even the cartoons, polarizing they may be, felt like they had better writing than Infinite.

But it does have clear issues, and while some folks may be okay with them, others won't (especially those who went for the Collector's Edition), and with an IP as big as this, the complaints are gonna be particularly prevalent and loud, but not completely undeserved.^note I'm not accounting for those who simply bandwagon instead of forming their own opinions and don't have any real interest in the game anyway. And I've only seen those types in FGC streams and Youtube channels. :P

In other news, I've been watching a lot of streams of the game and they really make me want to get it, but I've instead settled for playing UMVC 3 on my Vita and PS 4, mostly trying to avoid playing too often as the characters I'm interested in that are in Infinite.

Anyways, I've been noticing a lot of Reality Stone users, and some Soul Stone users, but not a lot of much else. I saw a couple of good Space users in the tournament last night, but no Time or Mind (admittedly, I've forgotten what those two did). Anyone getting the feeling that any of them getting buffed or nerfed in future (particularly in regards to Reality, which seems to be the most centralizing Stone)?

Character-wise, I've seen a ton of Ultron and Dormammu players, but I imagine that'll shift a bit as time goes on. Ultron and Dante seem ridiculously versatile though, seemingly able to fit with any partner.

edited 25th Sep '17 11:17:45 PM by Customer

I think I will eventually pick this up, but unlike with Nier Automata I won't be paying 60 bucks until the DLC is out.

edited 26th Sep '17 12:00:22 AM by Mizerous

On the topic of the Story Mode obligation a few pages back, there is real truth to it. I'm all for more story elements in fighting games, but newer developers don't seem to realise certain factors for the most popular and well known ones, namely Mortal Kombat and Blaz Blue. Since Blaz Blue was a visual novel format and Mortal Kombat was backed by a major AAA Publisher willing to give the game a high budget since they knew they had a big brand name on their hands. WB and Netherrelms can get away with Cinematic Story Modes on top of good volumes of content because they have the money to do so. Capcom clearly does not. Hell, even with Tekken 7, as excellent as the presentation and fights were, clearly had to cut corners. Hence the use of the reporter interludes with still images, recycling Cutscenes (Like the Vanilla Arcade and Fated Retribution openings), and having to sacrifice the detailed endings, probably a mode or two as well.

One side note that might shed some light: For the Skullgirls Indiegogo campaign to get new characters in, for each character, their story mode and stage would require an extra $25,000. Now these were for visual novel story modes with no animation, but with a higher volumes of C Gs that you'd tend to see in say, an ASW Story Mode. So it's something to think about in regards to what a Cinematic Story Mode might cost.

I gave in and bought this game for PC. For some reason it's only worth US$30 here when converted from local currency. That's just too good to pass up.

x3 re:Gems

I have gone to a local "week one" tournament and also did casuals with all of the stones, and I also did watch some of SCR 2017, here's my opinion on the stones. (Extra info: I played as Ryu, Thanos, Chris and Captain America.)

Power - It's "get off me" wallbounce combo starter is so good. While it has no invincibility, it's almost instant and pretty safe on block. Infinity storm's increased damage and infinite wallbounce is currently under-utilized by players. I think this stone will see more use as players learn more combos especially during storm.

Time - Its fixed-distance teleport is actually pretty good when you already have a slow projectile (e.g. Thanos) so you can mess up the opponent. There's a delay after you teleport where you can't do anything, so no instant mixups. You can pushblock and teleport out of the corner too. Infinity storm's "custom combo" is the hardest to use right now unless you're just spamming projectiles like a mofo. Like Power, I foresee more players use this later.

Space - I've seen the Rocket Raccoon player at SCR lay down a trap, then try to drag the opponent to it. If you have a decent range command grab (e.g. Thanos) you can try to command grab them from 1/3 of the screen after a hard knockdown. The box of shame is okay, but you gotta have a teleport or a speedy air dash to actually make good use of it. And your opponent can't have decent-to-good ranged game too.

Mind - I never landed the command grab, ever. Plus the infinity storm is kinda bad unless you're someone who charges up using meter (Arthur, in particular).

Soul - Lifesteal is meh, and ends combos. The storm is the one with the most obvious utility to a new player, but is deceptively hard to use well. It's seeing good use now, but it'll probably get better as players learn setups for their double character.

Reality - The ball is good, obviously, and has the most obvious utility to an average player. Storm is flashy as hell, and if your character has a command overhead (e.g. Ryu, Thanos) you can just overhead them then start a combo thanks the fire even without tagging. Ice or jump-height fire is great if they attempt to retaliate. Otherwise you can't do much to them when they're just superjumping backwards except giving them chip from the lightning, unless you punish them when they land.

You can punish Reality's fireball by running up to the opponent and taking the projectile as they're launching it, making you more plus than them. Also, obviously beam supers and Hawkeye's instant projectile super.

Yeah, count me in the "The story isn't as bad as people say it is" crowd. Tbh, I kinda want to write a Fusion Fic for it, but all the bad press from the story and the game itself is kinda discouraging me from doing it.

Gonna need a source on that.

There's actually a much simpler explanation. I mean other than fanservice. Morrigan has been in every MVC game since 1998 and is the Face Of The Band for Darkstalkers as a series at this point. Heck even beyond that, I'm pretty sure she has the most number of appearances across the greater Capcom Vs Whatever series from the Darkstalkers franchise. She was playable in both Capcom vs. SNK games, as well as the handheld SNK vs. Capcom and Tatsunoko vs. Capcom. She's basically up there with Ryu and Chun-Li as someone who is expected to be in every crossover at this point.

I agree everyone dogpiled on Spencer and Firebrand, but that's because unlike Morrigan, there was really no compelling excuse of "Well people expect them to be here because they're such a longtime part of the series at this point."

edited 26th Sep '17 6:19:55 AM by comicwriter

Capcom lacked the resources and most importantly, the writers to make a story mode work. Having to make all these set pieces probably contributed to their need to recycle assets.

You can say “Well what if they did a visual novel?” Project X Zone proves that kind of lower budget setup can work but the writing needs to be there to make people care about the characters. And that includes both the serious (X and Zero) and the absurd (Just about everything concerning Segata Sanshiro).

Wouldn’t it be a Fix Fic? Like “here are the characters from this game, here’s the basic story layout, let’s overhaul the plot and structure”?

edited 26th Sep '17 6:14:22 AM by Beatman1

I just wish they didn't do a story. I enjoyed it, but I would've preferred it if it got even a pair of characters over the story mode.

edited 26th Sep '17 6:16:39 AM by Zeromaeus

Holy shit, Ultron Sigma Ultron Sigma is so busted.

Meh, MVCI never needed a story mode, and I wish it didn't. But all the major reviewers dogpiled MVC 3 for "NO STORY MODE WAH WAH"(Angry Joe comes to mind) combined with MVC 3's own poor sales and the popularity of MK 9 story mode probably ended up making Capcom think every fighting game needs one now.

Honestly, I wish it just had a S Fx T structure instead, which consisted only of rival battles and endings for some canon teams. That one had much better writing.

edited 26th Sep '17 7:09:37 AM by Luminosity

There's no real source on the apathy thing, I've just seen more shit slung at the MCU in most of the chat during the streams I've been watching lately of Infinite. I'm pretty sure it's both stream monsters being stream monsters though (if not projected bitterness at the game itself), so it's nothing serious in the end. Looking back, I'm not sure why I said it.

As for Morrigan, I agree that she's in primarily because of her Legacy Character status. I was just musing about a possible minor additional reason that has no real bearing as there's no way to really prove it (which was why I put it in a note).

Max was talking about the story in his "Real Talk" stream last night and said pretty much the same thing (regarding structuring the story mode like SFXT, having the story play out by having you play as specific teams that progress through the plot until they all converge at the climax).

edited 26th Sep '17 8:08:09 AM by Customer

Max's review:

Basically echoes the stuff he's been saying before. He doesn't like the story mode, bland visual style or the roster, but thinks the gameplay is some of the best Capcom has come up with in a while, and goes so far as to say in that regard it's his favorite Capcom fighting game since Capcom vs. SNK 2, and that it has the best online Capcom's ever done.

I personally share that sentiment.

Well that and the whole "next to no female characters" thing. That's really odd that MVCI came out as such a sausage fest, when UMVC 3 had way more female characters on either end. You'd think the so-called "pro-diversity Marvel" would have had a say on that.

What I'm basically saying is "Where the hell is Kamala?"

edited 26th Sep '17 12:55:43 PM by Luminosity

On Marvel's end, it's because Marvel's films are in an awful place in regards to gender right now, and the films are what the Marvel roster is meant to advertise. There's only, like, two prominent female characters in the films that Marvel's interested in referencing right now (one of which was DLC, while another was actually in the game), with the third female prominent character in the game being on that's getting an upcoming movie. Since Marvel Studios doesn't have any more marketable films with any other women right now, we didn't get any more female Marvel characters in this game.

Art imitates money, and the money has been saying "no women" for a while now.

Away from the films and into the tv series there's also Jessica Jones, but I wouldn't expect Capcom to pick her - or Marvel to mandate her - for a variety of reasons. Which is a shame, as I probably would've preferred Jessica to Bucky.

edited 26th Sep '17 1:27:17 PM by KnownUnknown

Even then Jessica or Black Widow just aren't that interesting visually.

There powers are very plain.

At least Kamala & Sue Storm have shapeshifting & force field manipulation which makes it sad cause they are not in the movies.

And the X-Men embargo hurts things even more because a fair chunk of Marvel's most recognizable women (Storm, Phoenix, Rogue and now X-23) are Fox characters.

It's overall consistent with the focus on characters being featured in the movies. While Marvel's comic division has been trying to do better about that in recent years, the films have a lot of catching up to do. And because way more people watch the films than actually read the comics, well...

And like I said earlier, given that they've indicated the DLC fighters aren't even done yet, I'm guessing that also factored into them being DLC (in addition to greed). I really think the entire project would've greatly benefitted from being pushed back to 2018 instead of trying to meet a Fall 2017 release date, as it's increasingly clear corners were cut to have the game out fast.

edited 26th Sep '17 1:44:52 PM by comicwriter

The big thing is that it's too by the numbers. They basically filled the obligatory names and left it there, with no suprises and without someone from the X-Men nor the Fantastic Four, it feels for me that they didn't even fill that quota, to be honest.