Modern Day Fantasy World

It depends on whether magic even has a unified system. In most magic settings it does, but if you're dealing with multiple religions and cultures here it's entirely possible that they way one works might be completely different to how another works. Indeed there could very well be some religions that don't even really have their own magic systems, or said systems are limited to a select few.

Most Urban Fantasy, Unmasqued or Otherwise, is boring as hell anyway. Hey, don't bother dreaming up fantastical shit that's actually, y'know, urban. Just dump the usual trite Tolkien cliches/classic fairy tales into downtown New York and call it a day!

It has. It was called science and religion. To elaborate, the difference between science, magic, and religion in the Western world was established relatively soon, about the time of the Protestant reformation. Before that, it was either religion, with science as a tool for exploring and proving religious claims, or magic, meaning heretical beliefs, with science employed to sift out the useful bits without incurring the clergy's wrath. After the split, however, science was suddenly a child in a divorced family, and, through the outlet of Deism among others, eventually decided it didn't need any scripture other than its own observations. Thus the triple separation we enjoy nowadays, where horoscopes and lucky charms exist next to icons and blessings, next to jets and flying robotic drones.

The chief difference between science and magic isn't mass proliferation, but reliability. If magic were reliable, it would be industrialized. Still, a viable option is to have the world be in close contact with a spiritual dimension (alternate dimensions are my answer to everything these days), so magic ability comes from cultivating a personal relationship with gods and spirits, while monsters like vampires and werewolves are the result of outright possessions. There could also be the possibility of using one's body as conduit for energy drawn from the spirit world, in order to accomplish various magical feats - that's another thing technology wouldn't be immediately able to reproduce.

edited 20th Sep '16 5:15:06 AM by indiana404

Tungsten: OH MY GOD YES. Every time I see an urban-fantasy, it's always "The Chosen One must fight The Big Bad in an entirely different world than their boring-ass urban one," and I'm like... Face Palm. I wanted URBAN fantasy, not The Masquerade or the Changeling Fantasy.

Which is why I wrote Moonflowers, where The Fair Folk are terrorizing a random American family and this is explicitly referred to as "serial-killing at best and terrorism at worst," which both humans AND gods are very much opposed to. Not because the gods have deemed any of my protagonists a Chosen One(TM), but because the gods generally DON'T want people to be violently murdered for no reason, even if those people aren't their followers.

...And now I've got the pagan Filipino gods surging back into the world after centuries of Catholicism. Why do people keep beating The Masquerade's dead horse when you've got COLONIALISM basically doing the same thing?

calm down man.

MIA

Well, we're talking about the pitfalls and cliches of modern-fantasy. Namely that half of the "urban" fantasies are just Tolkien clones in New York or something. That shit gets boring.

of course it is, all i want is an urban fantasy where some guy is dealing with mafia run by fair folk or something.

MIA

"Why do people keep beating The Masquerade's dead horse when you've got COLONIALISM basically doing the same thing?"

because the masquerade as trope have their own used no related to colonialism? really I dont know where tha come from.

". Namely that half of the "urban" fantasies are just Tolkien clones in New York or something. That shit gets boring."

Tolkien clones? can you actually describe that? I mean from most part Tolkien just create like, 5 races in total, usually masquare used vampires, fairy or mix between fairy tales and horror monsters

Anyway, back to buissness

"In most magic settings it does, but if you're dealing with multiple religions and cultures here it's entirely possible that they way one works might be completely different to how another works."

them every sociaty will be reaaaaally diferent as magic tech is just magic play to their logical extreme, let give a look:

God magic: if magic is giving by the god them ether they will be in charge or have prominent seat in the goverment, think saudi arabia but with magic or worst if the god send a champion to ensure their dominion over everyone in that case imagine north korea if kim jung can actually do half of the shit he said

Equivalent exchange: well this is funny, if you sacrifice something to get something them matter is what can you give and what they can gave to you or more important, if you can sacrifice someone else....tend shit turn ugly, reaaaaaally ugly

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

The Masquerade hinges on knowledge of the magical/spirit-world being kept secret for [Insert reasons].

Colonialism through the spread of Christianity and Western culture has enforced "keeping the knowledge secret" by violently converting their colonies to Christianity, therefore "keeping things secret" because if the remnants of colonized cultures were caught openly practicing their traditions, they'd be killed.

That's why I find it irritating that people rely on standard reasons for The Masquerade when one of them is technically happening in real life.

edited 21st Sep '16 4:53:26 PM by Sharysa

that explains it.

MIA

So the magical secrets are akin to practicing pagan religions in Christian-dominated countries? Yeah, that ties with my own interpretation of magic as well, though usually the relationship between the pagan occultist and the local clergy is somewhat closer in my stories. For that matter, such division actually predates Christianity, with the Hellenistic world seeing a separation between Theurgy, meaning the official religious rituals; and Goetia, meaning the invocation of demons and spirits through less than respectable means.

Personally, I'm irritated by the "peeple are stoopid" explanation of masquerades, the assumption that nobody really believes in the paranormal and ignores it all the time. Because it's not like billions of people don't profess the existence of higher powers, or keep seeing religious images on burnt toast or whatnot. Invariably, the explanation is used to shill the idea that the speshul heroes are the only ones capable of dealing with the evil monsters, while any civil authorities are incompetent, corrupt, or evil themselves. It's a standard superhero trope, only even more misanthropic.

Actually, this is exactly the sort of thing I was railing against. I don't care about the fae folk. There is nothing intrinsically "urban" about the fae folk. You could transplant the fae folk to a pre-modern, pre-industrial setting and they would work exactly the same.

I want fantastical concepts and ideas that could only exist in a modern, urban setting. For instance, one idea I've had kicking around for a while are the Taxi Monks - a worldwide religious sect composed of supernaturally skilled taxi drivers. All roads on Earth carry a thread of energy, joined together in a vast, flowing web. The Taxi Monks have mastered a means of sensing that web, and immersing themselves in it. In so doing, they are able to "feel" the road ahead, sense traffic and pedestrians, and effortlessly weave through them at high speeds. What's more, by immersing themselves in the road, the monks become pseudo-invisible; no-one, not even fellow drivers, notice their presence once they're "in the zone". After all, how much attention do you really pay to the street around you?

The Taxi Monks use their powers to serve as the world's greatest taxi drivers, carrying people from A to B faster than any other vehicle on the road. The Monks view their work as a holy profession, believing that the path to righteousness is through servile labour. If a person is ever in need of a Taxi Monk, they will find one already waiting. But they'd better pay their fare - cheapskates never get served twice.

The Taxi Monks could not exist in a world with no cars or roads. Their very nature is reliant on the existence of our modern society. That is what I mean when I say I want urban fantasy - not fairies in flats, but magic in roads.

This debate sounds like a recap of Neil Gaiman's American Gods.

Here's one for you: with magic, the techniques found in the "spiritual self-transformation" section of the bookstore would actually work. I cant even imagine the impact on popular culture, religion, and medicine.

Then again, there would also be a negative side. People used to blame personal misfortune on magic users for a reason- if that stuff works it becomes way too easy to curse someone, or manipulate them mentally. Magicians are often distrusted by the general public because it is relatively difficult for the secular authorities to hold them accountable. For their own purposes, magical societies would tend to arise to enforce standards of public safety on magic users within their "jurisdiction", however that ends up getting defined.

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."

Tungsten: Your urban fantasy sounds fascinating. (And to your credit, it sounds like a setting-update of the Ley Line concept.)

Moonflowers involves how pre-industrial concepts like The Fair Folk ADAPT to urbanization, and the last leg of the story is starting to bring in themes of "Indigenous Magic Comes out of Hiding after centuries of Christianity's dominance."

Different desires, different story functions.

edited 23rd Sep '16 10:20:49 PM by Sharysa

Masquares represent two things: first is the ancient being forgoten for the new,modern world, is less colonialism as Sharuys said(but that can be implied, is a fairly good idea actually) and more globalization and their change of values, what was before a theater is now a huge cinema or now are singer having more money that aeveryone else, the concept of warrior barely exist and if have been replace with a soldier and so on and on, in this day the thing of yesterday get erase or adapt

The other interpretation is good old ancient conspiracy whichhappen yet again with globalization as bigger scenario require bigger villian, in theory this type is not bad but it need actualization from modern days where hdining information is useless and sladering the other is become the best tatic

"The Taxi Monks could not exist in a world with no cars or roads. Their very nature is reliant on the existence of our modern society. That is what I mean when I say I want urban fantasy - not fairies in flats, but magic in roads."

Actually that CAN exist before, just with wandering monks or explorer or what have you, just with taxi now, that is what I call high scale fantasy where you put a concept in the modern times with all that it means, a fairy need stories to survive? them go to hollywood that it.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

I suppose Takotsubo is my urban fantasy that fits Tungsten's personal definition of "requires an urban/industrial setting to function"—it's a superhero play about gangsters. There's a couple of references to how street-gangs operate LIKE they're feudalistic due to their eye-for-an-eye mentality, but you can't change "gangster" into "bandit" and take the "super" out of "superhero" or else all of the context goes out the window.

Plus their gang signs double as a Bat Signal equivalent. Since illegal graffiti is dependent on speed/stealth, you can't just downgrade a modern graffiti artist into a medieval renegade painter unless they only do REALLY easy/small designs or use stencils.

To be fair, most of conceptual things we know today already invented in some way or another in many cultures. Taxi Monks? Try sea navigators or merchant bodyguard or Sherpa.

Also, on Taxi Monks: Good Taxi Monks will try to follow regulations and standard, including the outdated and annoying ones. The-Not-Very-Good (Sith?) Taxi Monks will go in straight lines into the target, pedestrian and buildings be damned.

It's actually kind of interesting in that, in Europe and Britain anyhow, Christianity actually took hold in urban centers, as the more nature-focused fae folk and what not didn't hold much relevance for them. It was actually, early on, a very urban religion.

You could work in as well the Lovecraftian notions that cities and structures have personalities all their own.

Didn't one of Warren Ellis's comics series have a "urban elemental" or some kind?

Taxi Monks don't give a damn about the rules of the road. Those are for the muggles, who know nothing of the majesty that flows beneath their wheels. Taxi Monks run red lights and drive the wrong way down roads all the time - the whole point of their power is that these things are vastly less dangerous for them to do than anyone else. All Taxi Monks regularly weave through busy intersections and pedestrian crossings, because they can sense the perfect place for their vehicle to be, and put themselves there without fail.

Why would a Taxi Monk drive in a straight line through a building? For one, they drive taxis, not bulldozers. Secondly, their power is reliant on roads; on the symbolic power that roads hold, as lines flowing with energy across the landscape. Eschewing roads and driving through buildings makes no sense whatsoever - that'd be like a supernaturally-gifted sea captain trying to sail through an island instead of around it.

Technically, taxi services (as in people whose job is to drive random people around, not just a single rich person) far predate the invention of cars. Sherlock Holmes, in the original Arthur Conan Doyle stories from the Victorian era, was known to prefer using Hansom cabs to get around London.

Is there something intrinsic to motor vehicles, asphalt/concrete paved roads, and/or modern cities that's preventing them from existing without a postindustrial setting? To me, it doesn't sound like they'd function that differently if they were driving Hansom cabs around Victorian London. They show up when you need them, you pay them in whatever way they prefer to be paid, they drive their tiny cabs with fast horses in a flash without anybody else on the road noticing, and they do it perfectly every time.

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth."

i had this idea for a creature that was basically a slime monster made out of cement.

MIA

A few reasons:

• The first is that roads and road vehicles simply did not carry the same symbolic weight in pre-industrial times as they do now. Modern roads have vastly more traffic than pre-industrial ones, extend far further than pre-industrial ones, and have more people interfacing with them via cars than ever before. There is so much more energy being expended in the use of roads now than in any other point in history. We modern humans think about roads, and the vehicles on them, in very different ways to our pre-modern ancestors.
• Secondly, the whole point of the Monks' ability is that they can "feel" the road, because as car drivers they are directly interacting with the road's surface, whereas old-timey taxi-drivers were a step removed from the actual driving thanks to their horses. If a modern driver wants to turn, they turn the steering wheel and the car responds instantly, precisely as it was told. Do the same with horses and you get an inevitable degree of latency and imprecision. You can't get the finesse of modern racing drivers from a team of animals, no matter how obedient and trusting they may be. You need a machine.
• Thirdly, Taxi Monks play off of how rigid and regimented modern road systems can be, the inevitable desire to break the rules in the name of speed, and the idea that taxi-drivers know all the fastest ways to get around a city by road, and will do whatever it takes to arrive on time. The idea of people breaking all the rules of the road, and getting away with it because they're Just That Good, is a potent fantasy. Placing that ability in the hands of taxi drivers of all people is just an ironic twist: "oh, that guy who just pulled a 100 mph power-slide through three lanes of traffic? He's just doing his job."
• Fourthly and finally, there's just something very whimsical about taking something that people are used to thinking about in rational, industrial terms, and imbuing it with a sense of life and energy, the way people do for other mediums of travel like the sea and the sky. That's something that I feel is missing from a lot of urban fantasy - too often, the genre makes magic mundane, instead of making the mundane magical.

edited 28th Sep '16 1:35:51 AM by Tungsten74

I'd say the mixture of modern trappings and magical effects is well-explored in modern fantasy. Contrariwise, what I find lacking is the more religious aspect, the implication that these are matters indicative of far greater concerns. Typically, this results in the protagonist being the Chosen One to save the world, but I don't think it has to go down like that. Instead, what if the character is an actual priest - someone who is not chosen, but chooses to deal with the dark denizens willingly, based on genuine faith rather than the usual guilt complex.

The religious aspect also explains the most enduring monster archetypes - vampires, werewolves, zombies, ghosts and even Frankenstein (no, it's not a mistake just calling him that instead of Frankenstein's monster; the familial relationship is far too evident to ignore). All of them represent something cursed, something unholy, something indicative of powers from beyond the mortal world. In modern times, this translates to little Japanese dead girls jumping out of the TV screen - it's not the physical aspect that's scary, but the ancient idea of a vengeful ghost taking it out on anyone in sight. Even Lovecraftian horrors are striking not because there's anything inherently insanity-inducing in a mutant octopus with eyes in all the wrong places, but because of the idea that supposedly divine forces are actually monstrous and indifferent.

All in all, looking over various religious frameworks and postulates might be a good way to find fresh ideas. Selling souls online has actually happened in reality... well, the offers have, anyway, can't be sure about the actual transaction.

for some reason, my story idea seems a bit simlar. i had this idea where a two demon hunters, a cocky, sinful priest and a reserved and calm nun girl try to hack into the interet to hunt down a demon that's been stealing souls through ads.

MIA

"I sold my soul on e-bay" kind of deal or a "I clicked on a popup and DIED" thing?