Captain America: Civil War (with SPOILERS!) Discussion and Whatever Thread

Okay, anyone who already watch Captain America: Civil War, or people who are spoilers hound, or just want to make sure if their guess is right (I Knew It!) without doing something tedious (like actually watching the movie) or expensive (like paying for ticket) (hey, it's end of month, be more understanding, guys), please gather here.

Captain America is a fucking idiot in this movie. If anyone here has watched Generation Kill, he's basically almost exactly like the character who shares the same name in that series. An incompetent, egotistical glory-hound.

...I think doing action that ended up basically getting MCU equivalent of Burn Notice isn't exactly qualified as Glory Hound.

...In fact, nobody actually try to be Glory Hound, AFAIK.

Nope. Cap let his ego and his bromance with Bucky cloud his judgment. Instead of doing the smart thing and sharing his intel with the international community, he goes off to try and stop the villain with just himself and a handful of friends. And what happens? The villain gets exactly what he fucking wanted. He exploited Rogers' friendship with Bucky and played right into his hands.

Then who he can ask for help? Tony basically self-indulge in Chem, Black Widow is (relatively) untrustworthy, Coulson Team was busy with It, he doesn't have contact with anyone like Mr. Murdock or Ms. Jones, T'Challa basically hunting them like some unholy combination of jaguar and bloodhound, Nick Fury won't show up, and Dr. Strange hasn't become superhero yet.

Have not seen it but if they do make Cap the idiot, I will be royally pissed.

I haven't seen it yet, either, but to me it sounded mostly like everyone is very emotional, due to various elements (in Steve's case, mainly Bucky and his situation). I'll reserve judgement on whether it makes Cap an idiot until I've watched it myself.

I'm really hoping i don't walk away going, 'You know what? Spider-Man's the only one of you I like anymore.' because that's what happened to the marvel Ultiverse and if that's the road we're going down.... well then thank the gods Quicksilver's dead.

That reminds me, this movie's Spiderman is I think the best Spiderman I have ever seen on the big screen. Which is kind of telling, that Marvel's Civil War does Spiderman better than all the other actual Spiderman movies do.

Good for Tom Holland I guess. Looks like it's a year of definitive superhero performances.

How are the other characters?

The acting from all the big names is about what you'd expect. It was good in the previous films and it's about as good in this one. Some really good cameos halfway through.

No performance really stands out to me as being notably awful. One high point though was an early scene with the Wakandan prince. That actor really sold watching his dad die.

edited 27th Apr '16 8:07:16 AM by Gault

I'd give my left eye for a Lion king reference there.

Dude, too soon. King T'Chaka was beloved by his people. Plus, this movie has a pretty consistent tone and theme. Wouldn't work.

edited 27th Apr '16 8:10:22 AM by Gault

I know i was joking. So the performances were good, how were the individual characters written?

Everyone's motivations more or less make sense, which is damn important in this movie considering how important it is to the plot. It would have been a shame if this had ended up like the other big superheroes-fight-each-other movie of the summer. Even if I think Captain America is acting like his idiot Generation Kill namesake, it makes sense for him to act that way. Tony Stark too, given that the events of the last movie were entirely his fault. Instead of making an independent AI system, he's onboard with an internationally sanctioned initiative to create "peace in our time", exactly as it should be.

edited 27th Apr '16 8:27:42 AM by Gault

A concern i have here is while their motivations might make sense for them do the eventual conclusions the movie draws make sense for the world?

That's a bit broad. I'm working on a response, but you'll have to narrow it down a little.

Thread title fixed per request.

Just saw the movie, and first I have to say that despite its flaws, it was easily one of the best if not the best MCU movie. It's up there with Cap 2 & GOTG when it comes to sheer quality.

The flaws were mostly minor and kinda tied to it being a superhero movie. Contrived Coincidence, Poor Communication Kills, and the villain's plot is a bit too much of a Batman Gambit. Also, the discussion of what that means to be a superhero is extremely light and (I might get some flak for saying that) I think it was more interesting in BVS than in this one.

But that's about it: the rhythm of the movie is excellent, the action sequences are easy to understand despite their scale, the banter clearly helps give depth to the characters, and the newcomers get just enough exposure to have a personality but not too much so as not to deviate too much from the main story.

And the most important thing: it is an original movie. You do not know what is going to happen. You get surprised, which is something that was extremely rare by MCU standards. And the villain is layered, which is also uncommon if you compare him to the streak of villains from Obadiah Stane to Yellowjacket. Both sides have good and bad points, and it really breaks the status quo.

It also feels huge, having all those characters, even though some of them are only here for a couple of scenes. It must have been a schedule nightmare, but it was definitely worth it, and I would much prefer have fewer MCU movies with significant casts such as this one than going back to the "Hulk is in depression/Thor is in holidays/Tony Stark is hungover" explanations for their absence.

All in all, it is what the Avengers movies should have been, especially Avengers 2.

Still Team Cap here. In the end, Tony went on the path for revenge.

Also: Told you so!!! Remember, I mentioned months ago that the movie might not end with the solution for Civil War, but with the team split up and Cap and his people in hiding! (Sadly since I did predict it, the end lacked a little bit suspense for me...it might have been better if they hadn't shown Bucky and Steve fighting Tony in the trailer. That was one scene too much imho). I also entertained the possibility that War Machine might end up paralysed.

And the critics who complain about the villain are full of sh... Hello, he won! He got exactly what he wanted! I can't wait to see more of him. But I certainly didn't want to see more of him in this movie, because the Avengers had to create their own downfall.

All in all I think this movie is like The Avengers and The Winter Soldier had a baby.

I have only two criticisms at this point: I could have done without the "see this guy died in Sokovia" guilt trip at the beginning and I could have actually done with a little bit less action in exchange for the movie lingering longer on some scenes. I especially wanted more interaction between Steve and Bucky and any interaction between Steven and Ch'tala (SP?) before the final scene.

edited 27th Apr '16 3:15:03 PM by Swanpride

It's T'Challa.

Once again, the guy with no superpower but brains is the best villain.

I agree about more Steve/BP, but I think the Steve/Bucky scenes were perfect. More scenes would have meant more angst on Bucky's side, or maybe some guilt from Cap because he couldn't find him, and I don't think the movie needed that.

Comic Zemo = http://www.writeups.org/fiche.php?id=2817.

The film doesn't adapt any of that except he is excellent at gambits and has no powers. Unlike any supervillian ever, megalomania isn't inherit in him from the get go. Eventually he has to show some since he is one but this film does something different. We all have the knowledge he is responsible for a supervillian team. After witnessing his strategy imagine what he can do if Feiger does decide to take him in bigger directions

edited 27th Apr '16 4:02:37 PM by FictionWriterKing