Needs Help: Quirky Bard

So discussion petered out on the old topic. I'm pretty sure its length was simply too daunting for anyone to join in. I'm hoping starting again from scratch might let people join in.

Sadly, the page is not better. Currently it has over a thousand inbounds, and its redirect, Spoony Bard, has over three thousand. That would be fine, but the page is a mess. The description is gimornous, rambling, and inconsistent (it keeps talking about bards, then saying "nope, this has nothing to do with bards"). The examples are split between the description (gimmick class is worthless), bards are worthless, and "this game has a bard class" regardless of how good it is. The image is a reference to a meme, not the trope. A lot of the issue has to do with the fact that while it's a very catchy name, Spoony Bard just isn't very indicative. As such the page itself can't really decide what it's about.

I propose we turn Spoony Bard into a disambig for Sandbox.Useless Useful Class, , Final Fantasy IV, The Bard, and possibly William Shakespeare.

I'd also like to false Red Link it, because the temptation to link the page is quite tempting (Spoony Bard being a very catchy, though not very indicative name).

edited 11th Feb '16 11:13:02 AM by Larkmarn

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Opening this.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Yeah, I think the Useless Useful Class is a legitimate trope, but the whole "bard" thing has way too much baggage to actually make a good trope. I like the idea of spinning off the Useless Useful Class and using the Spoony Bard page as a disambiguation. False redlinking I could go either way on.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

I think that bards as the subject of jokes could be a good trope, though the only non-video-game-related example I can think of is Cacofonix.

If it's a reference to the FFIV meme then it's not really a trope, and other than that I don't see why it can't be including in our generic The Bard article.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

Also noting... this is a HUGE natter magnet. I'm currently migrating actual examples to Sandbox.Useless Useful Class, and almost every single entry seems to have a wall of text of natter, or just zero context.

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Cacofonix isn't a reference to Final Fantasy IV. Gildward definitely is, but he's more than just a one-off Shout-Out. Bards in general do seem to be hated by RPG players for their When All You Have is a Lute approach to adventuring, but I'm not sure how much that figures in fiction.

edited 9th Mar '16 10:53:06 AM by Prfnoff

D&D players also have a Love It or Hate It approach to bards, as they are either really powerful or quite weak, depending on edition.

Looking at the page, they seem to have the average TABLETOP RPGer in mind when that page was made. But it is a mess, Useless Useful Class could be a good trope, since bards and others fall into this a lot. It doesn't help that the person it's originally inspired by isn't useless (the Spoony Bard redirect), he's pretty good against undead with the Requiem spell. But this isn't what they're talking about usually - D&D has Bardic knowledge, allowing the party to work stuff out that they couldn't otherwise.

Naming Useless Useful Class after bards is a bad idea.

edited 4th May '16 8:09:28 AM by TheOneWhoTropes

Keeper of The Celestial Flame

Bumping for visibility.

This has gone on long enough, imo.

At this point, we should just cut it and let people who really care use Trope Launch Pad to do the dirty work of making a new trope out of anything salvageable.

edited 14th Jun '16 7:39:40 PM by Karxrida

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

You can't just cut it without a vote.

I am particularly partial to this particular name. But the first thing that comes to mind is not a useless roleplay class. I'd recommend that spoony bard be made a redirect to a useful notes/just for fun/self demonstrating page, but I believe it is against the rules to pothole to those namespaces. So that kind of quashes that idea.

I never really got the joke of wordy/ramblingness being associated with spoony bard, and I don't remember the page ever explaining it. But just because I don't get the joke/missed the reference doesn't make it a bad joke. Just an abstruse joke.

Having a page about the Bard class and it's common qualities, issues and such I think is good. Those qualities are largely filed in other tropes and should be listed here although cutting examples might work.

D&D classes and their stereotypes have pretty much dictated the way many classes and characters have gone for 40+ years.

See, that's the problem. It's a great, catchy name. It's just also a meaningless one.

But people like it so they want to link it for whatever. That's why I think a fake Red Link is necessary.

It's covered briefly in The Bard. But I suppose a Bard Class page could be made.

edited 15th Jun '16 11:52:48 AM by Larkmarn

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I realize this. I was just suggesting the course of action we should take.

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

Mechanically Unusual Class should also be taken into account. There's some overlap with this in that both pages deal with gimmicky classes, and I wrote some entries here (primarily for Pokémon) that should probably go there instead of (or in addition to) Useless Useful Class.

Agree on making Spoony Bard a disambig.

MAX POWER KILL JEEEEEEEEWWWWW

Thirded.

Yeah, disambig works best.

she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report

Single prop crowner?

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Disambig and yes.

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

Crowner made.

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Crowner hooked.

she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report

Thanks.

Just an update, remember when I said the page has 1000 inbounds and the redirect has 3000? They're up to 3000 and 4700 respectively.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.

So can anyone do the disambiguation, please?

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.