YMMV/PokemonAnime clean-up

Would Greninja's loss to Charizard be marked up as Never Live It Down?

So...do you think the page can be unlocked now that the XYZ saga has pretty much come to an end? I think the whole controversy revolving around Ash losing the League has died down considerably outside of just people joking about it.

I am a bit reserved considering that Sun & Moon anime is coming out soon, and then the whole thing has to relocked again should it ever does something shocking.

With that said, I would be open to the idea of unlocking the page, provided that everyone has heard of Alain's inner monologue in regards to his view of Ash after the Team Flare climax. As well as the kiss scene, which is even more shocking than any League outcome or new series.

& Don't forget the English dub of those episodes have not aired in America yet. There may be still some of the fandom that have not spoiled themselves on what has happened in the Japanese version of the series. I have no idea if Europe is waiting for those episodes to be dubbed or have already aired them though. There's about a three month gap between the original Japanese airing of an episode and the English dub's airing of the same episode (I don't know about the timing for Europe's dub).

Next Saturday in America on Cartoon Network, the final part of the Ash vs. Alain battle for the Kalos League airs. I figured to make this info known to help determine if the YMMV page could be reopened or not.

I'd agree with the notion of leaving this page locked until the next episode is over. I just hope they don't go after the recap page and start bombarding that one with edit wars.

Well, we do have Alain's speech from the episode after the Team Flare arc (as well as the fact that the XY&Z anime has essentially wrapped) to keep the wave of outrage under check (unlike the Japanese version where no one had any idea of where the arc was taking Ash and Alain until all of it was aired).

With the said, the general consensus of the XY series is starting form among the fans, and most agree that it was great Pokémon anime series with a great ending marred by only two specific things, the controversial League finals and XYZ 46.

I beg to disagree. I've looked at arguments where people have lambasted Serena's goal, her rivals, Clemont's walking tree status, the boring fillers in XY&Z, Ash's character being as flat as a sheet of paper, Ash's reaction to the league, Alain as a character, and lots of other things.

Sounds like Franchise Original Sin because that's (boring fillers, Ash's companion being walking background, etc.) nothing new.

edited 30th Oct '16 9:52:06 PM by erazor0707

But what's the overall reception? And not just simply from those complaining the lots on Serebii (which can get really nasty). The nitpicking aspect of fandom tends to overshadow the general reception, something I've seen happening with Diamond and Pearl after it was over.

Plus, I recall some fans calculating the amount of filler in XY&Z and discover that it actually has the least amount of filler compare to all the other series (the last official filler episode was just before the actual Pokémon League).

Oh, and I was wondering if Alain's aid to Team Flare can be considered a Never Live It Down example too. He will never be seen as Champion without someone bringing up his involvement of a criminal organization.

edited 5th Nov '16 11:39:52 AM by Shadao

NLID is getting plenty of misuse here, but we can't keep the page locked forever.

Seconded. Eventually a new season will come about and we need to realize there's more YMM Vs to write up.

edited 6th Nov '16 9:02:15 PM by Psyga315

How much of the page has been mostly clean up?

We can start by foldering off the page by letter. This page is pretty big, especially the Broken Base and Base-Breaking Character sections.

Looking at the YMMV page just now, I do insist a revaluation is needed for XYZ's reception due to many descriptions already dismissing the relatively great series in recent memory due to a few (admittedly big) factors and the fact that 2 weeks have past for the fandom to simmer down and talk about what they like and don't like. Consensus I got is that XY is still the best the anime has to offer despite the Kalos League results and the second-to-last episode delivering a blow to the reputation (in fact, many fans have dislocated those controversial aspects from the main show when talking about the pros and cons).

Also note that three newly developed factors ( Alain's admittance to Ash's superiority over him, Serena breaking the No Hugging, No Kissing rule, and Ash ending his Kalos Journey returning home with no Sun and Moon foreshadowing) have also affect fan perceptions in a positive way (especially the later two).

Additionally, I believe Goodra does not count as Memetic Loser as most people attribute its losing streak in the Kalos League to be unfortunate matchup (and it still took out Slurpuff). Noivern is a different matter since many fans made fun of the description of it being "a big and reliable guy."

Also, having seen the latest preview for Sun & Moon, we might have some unexpected aspects of Ash that may greatly affect viewer perception in a positive way (namely he and Pikachu are still ridiculously powerful with no apparent Reset Button so far). I'm still waiting and seeing, but this is something to keep an eye out.

SM is out with surprisingly good reception. I'll admit. I thought it was going to be flamed left and right.

Although I've found some fans that were complaining about how the animation quality went down, which clearly isn't true as movement is still very much fluid. If Fan Dumb took examples, then this would be a new one.

Also, there are also people complaining about the Fan Dumb, calling them XYZ Nazis and XYZ Genwunners.

We're probably just overreacting to the storm that never came.

edited 17th Nov '16 5:25:27 AM by Dr.XXX

Well, with that in mind, anyone think that we can finally unlock the page at this point since the backlash has either died down or wasn't as big as we thought it was going to be?

I would suggest keeping it locked until Christmas, in case later episodes provide to be as controversial as the trailers imply. Sure, the first two episodes look okay, but who knows. At least they don't appear to become the Japanese Dora the Explorer.

As I expect, there is a Channel Hop, but to Disney XD instead of Nickelodeon.

Personally, I believe this has been locked long enough. The page is probably long outdated by now. Waiting until Christmas would only invoke a Moving the Goalposts situation where some other controversial thing pops up, something that's slightly less controversial but still causes people to kneejerk and say "NOPE! MUST STAY LOCKED!".

I fear it'll get to the point where people might end up adding things that should have been just put in YMMV on other pages because of the fact that it is locked.

Well, if it's unlocked can people in this thread watch out for trouble?

Really? Wasn't expecting that to happen. No joke.

Is there any particular reason it's moving to Disney XD?

I'm gonna take a wild guess and say The Pokemon Company hated how it was being treated. It only aired 6 am cst on Saturday Mornings, where barely anyone would be up to watch it, while they spammed Teen Titans Go reruns all day.

Just look at their Thanksgiving weekend Schedule: http://tv.twcc.com/listings/cartoon-network#25-Nov-2016

A sad fate that befell Sonic Boom and the newest Transformers Cartoon

Disney XD also airs Yokai Watch, not sure if both shows airing on the same channel have any trope related to them.

edited 17th Nov '16 3:15:49 PM by anoni

At least Disney XD has aired a lot of good quality animation, and we know that if Sun and Moon were going to be as vulgar as the trailers and CoroCoro implied, Disney would reject it right away. It will never air on Disney Channel itself, though; it isn't appealing to 16-year-old girls without brains.

We need a Cartoon Network XD if the parent channel shows only vulgar content.

edited 17th Nov '16 3:35:48 PM by MysteriousZorua1994

Well, there's has been a recent development regarding the latest English dub episode. Namely they censored/modified the scene where Ash and his Pokémon were crucified.

Keep in mind, this is not new in Pokémon.

But I've already seen the Subbing vs. Dubbing argument erupting again. Wonder what to do with this?

If I turned my head funny, maybe the original Japanese looks like St. Andrew's cross, but that's not exactly common knowledge. Besides, I heard an earful from my friend who loves seeing Ash tortured.

I agree the page should be unlocked.