Needs Help: Genre Savvy

Yes, that's Genre Savvy.

Also sounds like a use of This Is the Part Where....

and the YKTTW that exists separately entitled Exploiting the Fourth Wall.

I dont know about that, they are not discussing Genre conventions. They are discussing story conventions something broader like Fiction Savvy or Medium Savvy.

Genre conventions are the important part of the trope, when its the wrong genre being discussed its Wrong Genre Savvy.

An example would be a Horror Movie that has someone constantly bring up horror conventions and cliches but since he knows what they are he spends his time circumventing them and staying alive.

edited 26th Aug '15 11:48:01 AM by Memers

Wrong Genre Savvy though only really matters when they get the information wrong. If they get it right, then it's still Genre Savvy.

I completely disagree, entire shows have been built around being Genre Savvy and Wrong Genre Savvy around specific genres and tropes common or built by that genre. and never bring up basic universal story tropes.

Basically if no genre or genre convention is discussed it can not be Genre Savvy or Wrong Genre Savvy it would be in a supertrope above them both. They have to name drop one of the pages on the first three sections or subsections on Genres for it to be one of the two tropes, You can not be Genre Savvy without the Genre.

• Fiction Savvy or Media Savvy 'in stories they do this and this so I do this' and since it's a story it will happen, failing this would be a subversion but not wrong genre as no genre is specified. Working to avoid it would be another trope as well.
  • Genre Savvy 'In Romance stories they do this cliche and this and he falls in love with me!' Since it is a romance genre story it happens that way and they become a couple.
  • Wrong Genre Savvy 'in Romance they do this and this and he falls in love with me!' Problem is it's a Comedy story and not a romance show so 'this and this' only lead to embarrassment and lutz.
  • Right Genre But Wrong Anyway would be another twist as would it's inversion. It's a big sign that an author is trying to break conventions and is pointing it out via a character.

edited 26th Aug '15 12:51:30 PM by Memers

Currently, the "genre" in Genre Savvy is extended to mean "media" pretty much.

and isn't there already a trope for "right but wrong anyway"?

And that is the big source of the misuse and the missing supertrope.

And no all of that is folded in the misuse of wrong genre savvy.

edited 26th Aug '15 12:54:16 PM by Memers

Right for the Wrong Reasons, if I interpreted your post right.

edited 26th Aug '15 12:53:05 PM by KarjamP

I'm not sure we're on the same page lakingsif. You said, "except, with Genre Savvy they don't need to have read or seen any works of the genre they're in." They do need to have read a story or seen a movie of the genre they're in. That's what makes it Genre Savvy.

It's possible to research stories without actually reading them. In fact, we're all technically Genre Savvy here even if we don't know the stories in question simply because we're documenting storytelling conventions on the website.

Even if you've never seen a horror film, most people will be aware of horror conventions. Dark setting, bad weather, isolation, etcetera.

As for the "misuse": a lot of the examples now are more about a character seeming to be aware of the fact that their reality is full of conventions that aren't present in Real Life (whether they know that they're in fiction or not changes), so "fictional world" has become a genre for the purpose of Genre Savvy. I'm not sure where we can go with this, or if it is one of the trope ideas that Raven had.

^^ That's using an in-story trope as an Audience Reaction, though. Characters can be Genre Savvy or Fiction Savvy. I don't think the real viewer can be. Or rather, assuming they've seen more than one work, they're so obviously so that it's not really noteworthy.

I do think it's a valid example of Genre Savviness if the characters talk about their own situation in terms of tropes or genre conventions even if they don't explicitly say that it's because they're familiar with works of fiction (the latter is usually implied by the former). Someone who remarks "We better not trust him at his word; he is a villain after all and lying is what they do", for instance. It's when it becomes "We better not trust him because he doesn't look trustworthy" or "We better not trust him because he's betrayed other people before" that it's not the trope anymore but just making a smart decision/being good at reading people.

edited 26th Aug '15 1:52:04 PM by Morgenthaler

I also do think that shima's Student Of Human Nature suggestion is a good idea, but there are a few ways to take it and now's not the time. It would probably take away some confusion with Genre Savvy though

There's also Functional Genre Savvy.

The trope is about "storytelling conventions", not "genre conventions". Why are we arguing about what is essentially the name of the trope? It's a misnomer, yes, but it's not the cause of the problem.

The only way the name's going to change is if the name, itself, is the problem, which in this case, it isn't (the true reason was the Trope Decay the trope underwent). The name being a misnomer isn't enough for it to be changed.

edited 26th Aug '15 2:54:18 PM by KarjamP

if that's about my post, I meant Student Of Human Nature as a new trope to get people to stop being confused about the purposes.

I was talking about those who were complaining on the interpretation of the trope by the name alone (due to the word "genre" being part of its name).

I completely disagree, Genre conventions are a huge deal and VERY VERY different than just story conventions. Different Cliches happen in different Genres, a Harem Genre event of running around a corner into someone will play out completely different than say in a Horror Genre, one is expected to Crash-Into Hello into a member of the opposite sex the other is expected to die!

A Genre savvy would predict the right genre they are in like say the image on Crash-Into Hello and it will actually happen. If they go into turn thinking Crash-Into Hello but instead die that would be expecting the Wrong Genre.

That IS a trope and that trope should exist, works like Gekkan Shoujo Nozaki Kun and characters like Sakura in it exist solely to do that. Now if you want to interpret Genre Savvy as the broader Story Savvy then we need to trope transplant that to another trope because it does not mean that and are different tropes.

edited 27th Aug '15 2:46:18 AM by Memers

Isn't that Functional Genre Savvy?

edited 27th Aug '15 2:49:55 AM by Rjinswand

No. Functional Genre Savvy is they are savvy enough to function in that world and do their role, its a universal trope and nothing meta about it.

Being savvy about their genre, someone calling it out, uses it, or abuses it is something that is very meta and very different from that.

Example of 220 in pictures from Nozaki-kun

Sakura has been asked on a bikeride, she is imagining what its like in a Shojo Manga◊ and imaging what is would be like for her◊ if that actually went to plan like the Shojo manga cliche. Problem is she isnt in the right genre, she is NOT in a shojo manga instead being in a comedy manga and it ends up coming out like this◊. She is savvy about a genre its just not in the right genre.

edited 27th Aug '15 3:43:40 AM by Memers

Isn't being savvy about the wrong genre Wrong Genre Savvy?

This is the first paragraph. It can be interpreted as supporting either "genre conventions" or "storytelling conventions". Both interpretations are the right interpretation of the trope. After all, tropes are supposed to be flexible, whether and there are cases on this wiki where trope names don't actually match up with what they're supposed to mean, but are kept as a Grandfather Clause due to them not being a problem.

That is the problem, the broader view is not Genre savvy, that is something completely different and not genre reliant.

Then when you compare Genre Savvy and Wrong Genre Savvy only the tighter Genre specific definition are actually counterparts.

Yes, however Wrong Genre Savvy is not always being used like that, Genre Savvy's misuse has spilled over since they are counterpart tropes. Wrong Genre Savvy is being misuse for bringing up any story conventions in general and if it just ends up being wrong. That is NOT Wrong Genre Savvy, its a completely valid trope but different something like Defying Discussed Story Conventions.

edited 27th Aug '15 5:07:09 AM by Memers

Please that the alternate interpretation cannot be used simply because of the trope's name ("Genre Savvy" as apposed to "Storytelling Savvy"). It's a misnomer, yes, but the only way a trope's name could be changed is if it's a direct cause to a problem.

In case you're wondering, I'm no longer arguing against the criteria of "gaining knowledge by knowing stories related to the situation at hand". Rather, I'm arguing that the trope could be interpreted to mean "storytelling conventions in general".

edited 27th Aug '15 6:47:18 AM by KarjamP