Opening, although I'll note that the Joan story is typically embellished a bit and more of a myth/reality mix rather than Real Life proper.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
This page seems to be missing her actual appearances in media like other Historical Domain Character. Jeanne d'Archétype seems to be the heart of the problem, that is for clones in fiction of the archetype, her actually appearing should be on the Joan Of Arc page.
edited 31st Oct '14 8:05:18 AM by Memers
iRidescence
So do Historical Domain Characters get a free pass to trope the real life persons as what is recorded in history/folklore?
Joan Of Arc is already listed under Useful Notes Pages In Main, but I need to know if any clean-up is needed before making the move — especially since I see some morality tropes and narrative tropes listed there.
edited 31st Oct '14 1:34:56 PM by theAdeptrogue
At minimum we need to add appearances in fiction.
Is there some practical was for us to distinguish between the legend and the person?
Clock is set.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Is there anything to do here besides move the page to Useful Notes?
iRidescence
Well, I've moved the page for now, but I'm still a little bit dubious about some of the tropes listed there that seems borderline "troping real life people". What's the policy of listing tropes for Historical Domain Characters anyway? Are they to be troped as any fictional character would be?
edited 8th Dec '14 8:55:41 PM by theAdeptRogue
You can't trope real people in general, but these old, medieval, quasi-mythical fellows usually are troped because their historical perception has coloured fiction quite a lot (which is why, in these pages you'll often find tropes descriptions going thus: "Historical records..." "A historical view..", "Some historians...").
Joan of Arc herself is such a Trope Maker and force in fiction that not troping her would be frankly stupid.
"All you Fascists bound to lose."
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
True. But the article could possibly do a better job separating the myth from the actual history. And, of course, a section showing her appearances in media.
PS: I can move the relevant examples from Jeanne d'Archétype latter today/tomorrow. There are not that many, actually. Most folders would have one or two examples each.
PPS:Jeanne d'Archétype page image is actually Jeanne D'Arc herself, from Fate Apocrypha. I guess this should be changed also?
edited 11th Dec '14 11:45:22 AM by Heatth
The image of the Jeanne d'Archétype page is listed as an example and is selected per an Image Pickin thread, I doubt it's going to be changed anytime soon.
Wait that is her? Then it probably should be changed, because the fact that it was her was not brought up in that thread IIRC.
Well, that is one of the misused examples of listing Joan herself in that page. This is not the only case, which is why I proposed to move them all to Joan of Arc. Anyone objects to that? I can do it today if there is no problem.
Yup, it is her. Well, maybe a magical copy of her (though probably not, giving the background), but it is definitively Joan D'Arc herself. The funny thing is that the parent franchise actually have a perfect good example of a Jeanne d'Archétype.
Yeah, I actually had suggested Saber in the two threads trying to sort this out and got shotdown for that one. [1]
◊ Chris Lightfellow
◊ from Suikoden 3 as well.
edited 12th Dec '14 7:04:30 AM by Memers
According to the thread you liked, the fact the page depicted Joan D'Arc herself was brought up, but people apparently concluded it doesn't matter. At any rate, what we need to agree is if we should move the examples from Jeanne d'Archétype to Joan of Arc. If yes, then I would have to disagree with the image picking thread and argue it does matter the page image is actually Joan herself, as it will fuel further misunderstanding of the trope.
Re-clocking.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Clock is up with no progress; closing.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Being a real, historical person, Joan Of Arc should, by definition, be a Useful Notes page, but the tropes listed there looks like something you'd find in a work page, and I'm not sure which parts could be kept, and which part should be removed per our "no troping Real Life people" policy.