Ooh, I like that one.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
That one sounds good. ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Tweaked the sandbox a bit.
Alright, tweaked the crowner. Probably largely a formality at this point, but let's get a final vote on this thing.
edited 30th Oct '14 11:51:08 PM by KyleJacobs
Uh, that is not how it's done. The new name is selected in a new crowner once the old one is called, not by rewriting the old crowner.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Oh, sorry. I thought we did call the old crowner, though, so should I request a new one?
Well, now I'll call the crowner in favour of using the redefinition of @11 and renaming the trope. Also, hooking an alt names crowner.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Votes bump.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Ok, so. After rereading Dragon with an Agenda (which could probably use some tweaking itself, since a lot of examples overlap with The Starscream), it's occurred to me that this trope might already be included in there. Specifically, this bit:
"Most commonly, he and the Big Bad have a mutually profitable alliance, and the Big Bad just happens to be the more powerful of the two."
A few of the examples there could fall under this with a simple copy-paste. Now, I'd have no problem with striking that particular sentence, limiting that trope to Dragons with conflicting agendas (which is what it mostly consists of now anyway), and migrating the rest to this, but I feel like making that call without a good deal of discussion would be a really bad idea.
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
Does a Self Serving Subordinate have to be The Dragon? If not, that would make Dragon with an Agenda a Sub-Trope, not the same trope.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
They do not. More like sister trope than subtrope, I guess.
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
A Sister Trope would be if the examples do not always overlap. If Dragon with an Agenda is always a Self Serving Subordinate, then it is a Sub-Trope (The same trope, but with The Dragon as the subordinate).
Speaking of which, Self Serving Subordinate is at 11:2
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Bumping this. Let the record state that I still don't think Self Serving Subordinate is clear enough on the "this character is perfectly loyal and competent, as long as what they're doing benefits their own goals" point.
Well this has been languishing for a while. Bump.
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
(yeas:14 nays:6) for Self Serving Subordinate
(yeas:8 nays:5) for Self Interested Loyalty
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Jupiterian Local
I dislike Self Serving Subordinate because it makes it sound like a minion who is quietly screwing over his boss to further his own aims instead, which is not what this trope is about.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
The Unknown
So the point of this was just a rename, or was there some redefining going on?
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
We voted to redefine, which I realize I never actually got around to doing. That's an easy fix; the sandbox is ready to go. Currently voting on the new name.
Rabid Fujoshi
I voted for Self Serving Subordinate.
As for the Sandbox, I think it's a little to focused on the subordinate being a minion, i.e. a servant/ally of the Big Bad, when it's specifically neutral on that front.
The example I'm thinking of is Urie from Tokyo Ghoul:Re who is the Token Evil Teammate of The Hero. He is famously out for PROMOTIONS, which means he will serve The Hero and his boss, Sasaki, to his utmost ability...even if it means tanking plans or backstabbing teammates to come out looking good.
SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)
You're going to need to explain that a bit more - intentionally sabotaging plans and backstabbing teammates doesn't seem compatible with "serving to the best of his ability." That's also exactly why I dislike Self Serving Subordinate as the title.
Jupiterian Local
Yeah, if he's willing to screw over the team as long as he ends up looking good, then that's not this trope. This trope is about someone who serves honorably, loyally, and competently, to the best of their abilities — not because they value honorable, loyal service in and of itself, but because severing honorably and loyally benefits them.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Jupiterian Local
Rename crowner is currently at 9 (yeas:17 nays:8) for Self Serving Subordinate and 3 (yeas:9 nays:6) for Self Interested Loyalty. I still think that the former is misleading, but it's definitely winning the vote. Should we call this one?
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Please no, I hate that idea. Can we get a mod weigh-in first?
edited 16th Dec '15 7:16:44 PM by KyleJacobs
Crown Description:
What should the new name be?
How about Self Interested Subordinate, for the Added Alliterative Appeal and to make the title a bit broader?
Edit — hm, that might be a bit to broad, actually, as it would seem to include things like The Starscream. Maybe something like Self Interested Loyalty?
edited 21st Oct '14 6:15:41 AM by NativeJovian
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.