General Autism Discussion

So, I was thinking that some time, on some day, a bunch of us could get together on Cytube and watch something in a chatroom. Cytube is a site that synchronizes videos from You Tube or Google Drive or other sources, and has everyone watch the same thing at the same time while they chat. A shared viewing experience.

So, I was thinking maybe we could watch a movie with an autistic protagonist such as The Accountant. Or whatever suggestions any of you folks have.

We'd have to find a time and date that works for many of us. I was thinking a weekend (probably not next weekend, which some Americans take as a holiday just after Thanksgiving), and a time that would help us deal with timezone differences.

I'm really wondering just how genetic autism really is, and what exactly triggers it in a family. Here's a family with two autistics and one kid with another condition.

A severe autistic and a mild autistic in the same family; I know multiple examples of that personally. I know someone who shows many signs of "high functioning" autism, while his sister is severely disabled with the more severe form. And I know someone else who shows significant signs of "high functioning" autism, along with her dad, while her younger brother was diagnosed when he was little (he's since developed into an Aspie himself). Of course, these are anecdotal examples. But this just jumped out at me.

I'm not a geneticist, but my understanding is that variability like that is an indicator of a very complex genetic infrastructure—apparently lots of interacting genes, and presumably environmental conditions, contribute to learning disabilities like HFA.

It's ironic that Aspergers is a learning disability, since it often comes with high intelligence. The article describes the daughter with Aspergers as being very intelligent, but having social difficulties. Of course, the social difficulties are caused by, well, a learning disability in social skills.

Seeing that mix, could you say it's a case of Can't Catch Up? Because it applies to me pretty well: I seemed to have a head-start in intelligence when I was younger, doing well in lots of things. Nowadays? I'm pretty much falling behind on a lot of school subjects as I have extreme difficulty learning a lot of new things. Especially if it requires lots of calculations or logic, such as math, physics, chemistry and programming. My mind simply can't synthesize all that, and it's hurting my grades.

On the other hand, I do pretty well at history, considering I got a 100% last bimester. I've also been told I'm great at storytelling and script writing, courtesy of me being into fanfiction since I was little. (Of course, most of what I came up with and posted was pretty bad, but I kept honing my skills through the years) Not sure if Aspergers somehow helped out those, merely didn't affect them, or my interest for those prevented me from falling behind like I did in most other things.

Currently postgrad, still doing month-long assignments in two, three days at most. I'd say not.

You know, that's similar to my situation as well! I too was quite ahead of my classmates in some ways, especially math, which I could easily do quickly in my head. I had my own, faster way of multiplying and dividing, adding and subtracting, and I could also speedread. But later? Math turned into all this complex stuff in 8th grade and suddenly I was doing poorly. I also don't believe I can speedread like I once did as a kid (though I don't remember how fast my reading speed was and how good my comprehension was at the time).

At one point in high school, I came to the conclusion that studying did nothing for me, and whatever grade I would get, I would get no matter what. Studying didn't seem to help, so I stopped studying for all tests. Ultimately, I got a B average.

Oh, I relate so much to the studying thing. Sometimes it feels like studying makes zero difference for some subjects. Mostly the aforementioned ones in my previous post. *sigh* I just don't wanna fail the year.

I've only failed through sheer... not doing anything for about a year.

I'm probably not a good comparison. I put about as much work into an entire four year degree as you're probably supposed to put into a few months of one. It worked out well.

I'm completely Type A. Never gotten a B in my life, have three majors, part of several prestigious honors programs (one of whom only has 12 students selected from thousands) Doesn't matter if I care about the class or not. If I'm there, I'm sure as hell getting an A. I put a ton of Type A effort into my other hobbies too (pokes Na No Wri Mo word count in signature) I can't really relate to what others are saying

edited 19th Nov '17 10:06:07 PM by Cailleach

I always put tons of work into learning about my subjects and engaging during class, but outside of class I simply couldn't get my brain to engage to write essays, thus why I ended up failing my degree.

I've been looking at employment support stuff today, my sister (who works for the council getting adults with learning disabilities into work) helped me and we've tracked down a few places where I live that may be able to help me.

The big thing we ran across with a lot of organisations is the infantalisaton, most of the websites are set up assuming that you're not the person in need of support, instead it assumes that you're looking to work for them, looking to promote them or looking to donate money. There's no "I am an autistic adult and need your services" page on most of them.

Oh my god, yeah. While an autistic adult was part of the Night of Too Many Stars, where comedians raise money for autism, one article about it referred to raising money for "autistic children".

With TV shows like Atypical, The Good Doctor and The Big Bang Theory (assuming that many people believe that Sheldon has Aspergers), along with the movie Rain Man, it should be obvious that autistic adults exist. It's not like we're not portrayed in fiction or anything.

And I'm a big believer that getting the fiction right is important. People are heavily influenced by fiction. They believe it represents reality to at least some degree, particularly when it talks about subjects they know little or nothing about. Just like how Rain Man created a certain stereotype about what autism is, we need more and better fiction that's closer to reality. Because like it or not, that's where the public is getting their ideas from, unless they have direct personal experience/understanding regarding autism.

edited 20th Nov '17 4:55:34 AM by BonsaiForest

About studying... I remember in elementary school I was way ahead of my classmates in some elementary classes - and I just got really bored with work and just wanted something that actually challenged me instead of just all this stuff I already knew, so I usually just ended up doing my homework right before class started... which kinda ended up just hurting my studying habits even now, years later. I honestly never cared about grades, probably because I was just sick of school and thought "as long as I pass it's good enough"

I feel exactly the same. Then again, it might be just laziness. I prefer to have fun instead of stressing my mind studying.

I was a pretty mediocre student back when I was in middle and high school (or our equivalent of it down here anyway). Really felt no motivation to excel academically at all, the subjects that interested me (mostly literature and history) I knew well and enjoyed learning about so the minimal studying I did was more than enough, the rest I just did the bare minimum and as such mostly just scraped by.

Since then I've matured enough to understand I need to actually put in some effort, back when I was at my last major I took it seriously and exerted myself a lot, I did pretty well on all the subjects I was taking except for my programming class, but that wasn't for lack of trying and I was told getting a 6.0 was perfectly normal for rookies.

I feel confident that I could learn about most any subject academically these days with enough time and effort, even most of the STEM stuff I struggled with earlier when I was younger feels very manageable now. It's all about practice and recognizing patterns.

edited 20th Nov '17 5:01:15 PM by Draghinazzo

I am thinking that for some people, their natural development is such that they may gain the skills school tries to teach years after they're "supposed" to learn them in school. Like they may be in, say, 9th grade and having a very hard time understanding the thing being taught, but a few years later, after having developed more skills, it all clicks in an "aha! So that's how it works!" kind of way.

The school system is built on the assumption that everyone learns the same way and at the same pace.

Why is Autism being genetic and hereditary even a debate? Hans Asperger suspected that it was all the way back in the 30s. On the chapter on him in Neurotribes, it's mentioned that he noted that many of the parents of the children he saw in his clinic, would display similar, but often less pronounced traits and behaviors. I'm pretty sure he also hypothesized that it was poly-genetic, and has no one cause as well.

I believe the term that's often used to describe subclinical Autism is "Broader Autism Phenotype", which is used to describe people that have several Autistic Traits, but are not disabled by them. Autistic people are more likely to have someone in their family tree to show some of these traits, if not a form of Autism itself.

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15248372.2016.1200046

edited 21st Nov '17 10:19:04 PM by megaeliz

Oh, I totally agree. I've seen sooo many people I happen to know online who have a sibling who's autistic, and show traits of it themselves. But they sometimes insist they don't have autism, while their severely disabled sibling does. It's happened many times. I even know someone whose dad shows considerable autism traits and younger brother was diagnosed with it, who now thinks she may have it herself.

And you read Neurotribes? I loved that book! What did you think of it?

They deny it's genetic because it means it's their "fault" their kids have autism.

Hence why they prefer to blame things like vaccines (bullshit).

An autism blog just reviewed Uncommon Sense, a play about the spectrum. The play was created with input from actual autistics, and it's about the spectrum as a whole, rather than just portraying the common stereotype seen in most TV shows. It tries to get it right.

Six years of research. Wow. They truly tried. They also talked to lesser-known advocates to try to create more original characters:

And, here's our cast of characters:

A very diverse crew. The nonverbal autistics are portrayed as having a personality and identity, and wanting to express their personality. Even one of the "Aspies" is portrayed as having a job way below his intelligence - a very common experience for autistics.

I did read another review of the play that was overall positive, but which also said that the play feels more like it's blatantly trying to educate people rather than totally letting things unfold naturally. It's a tricky balance to strike. For me, I also wonder about something else: how many people in the general public want to watch a play specifically about autism itself? I have a coworker who liked Atypical. My mom's friend watches The Good Doctor. A married couple that are friends of my parents watched The Accountant. All these are about other things besides just autism itself. This play, however, is explicitly about autism, and nothing else. So I question how much appeal it has outside of that audience, and how many people who don't have a personal stake in the matter will want to watch it.

Still, I applaud their effort. I hope it succeeds.

edited 21st Nov '17 6:50:19 PM by BonsaiForest

Honestly, I probably wouldn't watch it. But then, I was never a fan of Edutainment.

edited 21st Nov '17 6:53:10 PM by M84

Besides, things with genetic causes cannot be treated and even when they could they'd have a high risk/benefit ratio. Blaming something else gives hope.

The idea that a genetic issue affecting your children is your fault is ridiculous. Human DNA is all kinds of screwed up with a ton of really awful things hiding in it. Autism really isn’t that bad when you look at some of the other things hiding in there.

I think part of the problem is that the eugenicist idea of people being superior or inferior is still hanging around, doing a ton of damage.

I just came back from the theater after watching Roman J. Israel, Esq. (which I just noticed we somehow don't have a works page for!)

My mom had told me about it, saying that it's about a lawyer on the spectrum. The movie, however, never says that he is, or even hints at it. You pretty much have to be "in the know" to pick up on it.

Anyway, the plot is that a lawyer with a strong code of ethics ends up looking for new jobs and finding one, but constantly coming into conflict with his personal morals clashing with his coworkers and bosses. At one point, desperate for money, he makes a terrible deal - he turns in someone who a client he's representing worked with for reward money. This weighs heavy on his conscience (and is also illegal, since his client's guilt is confidential information), and also results in him being stalked by a killer seeking revenge.

Well, onto the portrayal of autism traits.

First off, the main character is black. With autism pretty much only being portrayed as appearing in white males (with few exceptions such as Abed from Community), this is a refreshing change.

He does some of the usual stereotypical autism things - his eye contact is a bit off, he talks a bit quietly, he bluntly says his mind and offends people (mostly when people upset his moral values by doing things like making fun of crime victims), and he eats a small variety of food, like the same brand of peanut butter - straight from the jar as food itself - every day.

There are also some things that I found very refreshing. Roman's strict code of ethics. It's super strict. When a partner at a previous law firm gives Roman a car ride and tells Roman that he (the partner) is receiving kickbacks from every criminal he gets off with a reduced sentence, Roman says to stop the car, then tells the man, "I can't work with you anymore," and promptly quits his job. He is honest to a fault, but he is so strict about wanting to do the right thing, that he turns down opportunities that could get him a lot of money. (Which may be why he decided to collect reward money on a killer that a client had a connection to - even though it violates his code of ethics and haunts his conscience later.) At one point in the movie, Roman compiles a massive legal brief that he plans to take to the Supreme Court, alleging - with 3,500 case studies to back him up - that the legal system is seriously flawed in the way it threatens people with severe sentences in order to encourage a plea bargain from people who may even be innocent. He tries to convince other skilled lawyers to join him on his quest to reform the justice system.

Anyway, will it teach the public about autism in any way? I'd say no, sadly. The knowledge that the main character is on the autism spectrum is outside the movie, and it's one of those things that most people will not pick up on. Nor will people be likely to associate Roman's autism with his strict moral code (and I note right now that the autistic protagonist of The Accountant - which is the movie set for Dec. 9 that many people in the Discord have agreed to attend - also has a strict moral code). Ultimately, it's one of those "if you know, you know, but if you don't, you won't" things. Much like some of the subtleties in The Accountant. But as a movie, I enjoyed it. Not the sort of thing I'd want to watch twice, but it was worth seeing.

edited 24th Nov '17 11:36:10 AM by BonsaiForest

It's at least nice to see people acknowledging that they meant a character to be autistic, even if it's outside of film itself. Obviously this can create issues with bad portrayals of autism, but it also makes it somewhat easier for those of us who are looking for autistic representation in the media we consume.

I still remember back in high school and undergrad when the clique of autistics I loosely associated with would go looking for representation in various anime characters etc, or in terrible sitcom characters like Sheldon.