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MattII Since: Sep, 2009
#26: Jan 22nd 2014 at 12:57:45 PM

What about doing things the other way, humans are so individualistic and egotistical that often it leads to a stymieing of development (for example, Edison, or the Wright Brothers).

Belisaurius Artisan of Auspicious Artifacts from Big Blue Nowhere Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Artisan of Auspicious Artifacts
#27: Jan 22nd 2014 at 2:34:33 PM

On the other hand, this also means we can, as a society, approach a problem through several different means simultaneously rather than put all our resources into one approach. One group could think that the proper solution is X and pursue solution X while another disagrees and pursues solution Y. Even if they both fail due to lack of resources both solutions would be explored and a subsequent attempt will have the information of both solutions.

edited 22nd Jan '14 2:42:37 PM by Belisaurius

MattII Since: Sep, 2009
#28: Jan 22nd 2014 at 3:02:54 PM

Which is not precluded to the aliens, its just that they might well not get involved in patent wars, and instead put the time and effort into actually outdoing each other.

Belisaurius Artisan of Auspicious Artifacts from Big Blue Nowhere Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Artisan of Auspicious Artifacts
#29: Jan 22nd 2014 at 4:04:12 PM

On the other hand, a lack of patent and the effort to protect them would mean a lack of drive to innovate. Why bother when you're not going to get rewarded for it?

MattII Since: Sep, 2009
#30: Jan 22nd 2014 at 6:56:44 PM

Well there's always vanity. For some people, getting their names in the history books was very important. This could easily lead to commissions, after all, surely employing a man capable of inventing, say, a new steam engine would be much better than employing someone who could merely copy someone else's work.

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Trans Siberian Anarchestra (it/they)
fulltimeD Deputy Director, Space-Time Gradient LV-114 from Purgatory Since: Jan, 2010
Deputy Director, Space-Time Gradient LV-114
#32: Jan 23rd 2014 at 4:55:42 AM

@Matt II:

Kind of reminds me how the Chinese were the first to invent gun powder but they used it mostly for fireworks (though I believe they did sometimes use it for weapons). Then westerners got a hold of it and now the world is filled with handguns and assault rifles.

Hyppothetical Sitation: Imagine an alien species that invents the nuclear reactor but never makes the connection between that power and weaponization. If you asked them, they'd probably tell you that building nuclear weapons takes away from the civic infrastructure, and it's wasteful. Why blow up a reactor when you could use it to power a city?

edited 23rd Jan '14 4:56:04 AM by fulltimeD

MattStriker Since: Jun, 2012
#33: Jan 23rd 2014 at 5:31:02 AM

That's a bit of a myth, by the way. The chinese put gunpowder to military use as soon as they had the means to produce it in relevant amounts. "Fireworks" also had military applications from signaling to primitive rocket artillery. It's just that they didn't come up with cannons until a century or so after they'd invented rockets...

Reality is for those who lack imagination.
fulltimeD Deputy Director, Space-Time Gradient LV-114 from Purgatory Since: Jan, 2010
Deputy Director, Space-Time Gradient LV-114
#34: Jan 23rd 2014 at 5:36:46 AM

^ Thanks for letting me know, I appreciate being wrong (but only some of the time) ;)

MattII Since: Sep, 2009
#35: Jan 23rd 2014 at 11:44:11 AM

I can just imagine it now, an alien that doesn't really understand the concept of war, so they have all sorts of high-tech gadgets, but never really moved beyond revolver rifles.

nekomoon14 from Oakland, CA Since: Oct, 2010
#36: Jan 23rd 2014 at 3:15:06 PM

Humans constantly wonder why things are the way they are, while demons just accept facts and exploit them. Only humans produce ghosts. Humans can be any alignment, while demons are all lawful. Humans don't realize that their faith (in anything) is magic. Unlike animals, humans can't sense the danger that demons exude.

I know this is more fantasy-type stuff but they're still special.

Level 3 Social Justice Necromancer. Chaotic Good.
fulltimeD Deputy Director, Space-Time Gradient LV-114 from Purgatory Since: Jan, 2010
Deputy Director, Space-Time Gradient LV-114
#37: Jan 25th 2014 at 7:29:31 AM

Our adaptability to environments other than the ones we evolved in is pretty special. We've managed to survive and build communities in every climate on Earth. In a lot of my stories it's stated that humans were able to inhabit more of Earth than most aliens can with their planets. Even some of my most advanced alien species are more limited in humans in their mobility, flexibility, and ability to withstand distressful conditions like extreme cold weather. These species are limited to either temperate, tropical and subtropical climates, or sometimes just the last two.

kalesalad Since: Mar, 2019
#38: Mar 28th 2021 at 2:13:39 PM

Life on Earth started in the ocean, maybe a lot of life on other planets never moved to land, so living in the water is the norm. There would probably still be some land animals, but maybe aquatic life is more common and humans are unique for living mostly on land.

Belisaurius Artisan of Auspicious Artifacts from Big Blue Nowhere Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Artisan of Auspicious Artifacts
#39: Mar 29th 2021 at 4:38:48 AM

There's some question as to if a technological society could start in the water. Smelting metals is going to be profoundly difficult without fire, for example.

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Lost in Space
#40: Mar 29th 2021 at 6:56:06 AM

Hello, seven-year necro. Unless chemistry behaves very differently on other worlds, developing technology beyond stone tools for an underwater civilization is an insurmountable challenge.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
aPod-ofSeals That there is a seal. from the biggest planet on Earth Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
That there is a seal.
#41: Apr 1st 2021 at 5:53:48 PM

Was about to bring up throwing things, then realized someone already said that way back when this thread started.

So instead, consider this: that evolution is a haphazard process, and lots of creatures are ridiculously inefficient, humans included. So maybe, by cosmic chance, we're the only sentient species with something we think of as essential, like opposable thumbs, or depth perception, or color vision. Maybe everyone else relies on smell, or hearing, or something, and we've got the best sight in the Universe in exchange for crap noses.

Data is imaginary. This burrito is real.
Belisaurius Artisan of Auspicious Artifacts from Big Blue Nowhere Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Artisan of Auspicious Artifacts
#42: Apr 2nd 2021 at 4:26:52 AM

Plausible, but unlikely. We don't even have the best eyes on Earth.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#43: Apr 2nd 2021 at 4:52:24 AM

While it violates the Copernican principle, you could decide that humans are rare in evolving on a planet like Earth. Most life evolved on planets with very different conditions, such as lower gravity or a redder sun, making adaptations like strength or color vision or whatever somewhat unique.

Edited by Fighteer on Apr 2nd 2021 at 7:54:31 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
DeMarquis Who Am I? from Hell, USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
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#44: Apr 3rd 2021 at 12:22:15 PM

Why do humans, as a species, have to be unique and different? There is so much individual and cultural variation within humanity, and rational thought would seem to be bound by the demands that survival would impose on any species. Narratively, of course, aliens exist to symbolically represent, in a purer form, the various human traits and characteristics that confuse us so much in real life. But in real life, once a species takes to space, biological differences are going to be mostly irrelevant. The specific characteristics of our respective technologies will be the over-riding factor, and the odds of encountering someone at more or less the same stage of development we are at is remote, at best.

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."
Belisaurius Artisan of Auspicious Artifacts from Big Blue Nowhere Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Artisan of Auspicious Artifacts
#45: Apr 4th 2021 at 8:59:28 AM

Mostly because without some sort of edge, humanity would likely fade into obscurity on the galactic stage.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#46: Apr 4th 2021 at 9:46:06 AM

Says who, and what "galactic stage" are we talking about? There are many, many scenarios for this and authors are free to choose whichever one fits their needs.

  • There's nobody else out there; we're the first and only intelligent spacefaring species. (e.g. Dune)
  • Humans get out there ahead of most folks and are generally better inclined to explore and colonize the galaxy. We're sort of the alpha dog, possibly with one or more partners. (e.g. Star Wars)
  • We join a galactic community at rough parity with a bunch of other species and start our own Federation or some such. There's something special about us that makes us better suited to be protagonists. (e.g. Star Trek)
  • We're puny newcomers to a vast galactic society that could squash us like bugs but doesn't because of politics or because we bring something unique to the table. (e.g. Uplift)
  • We're latecomers to a galaxy that's already had a big, catastrophic party and is now hung over and regretful. As the only sober species left, it's on us to pick up the pieces. (e.g. The Dig)
  • The rest of the galaxy, or at least the less reputable elements, come calling on us when we don't get into space quickly enough, figuring there's cheap resources to be had by murdering everyone and taking over the planet. We survive by being plucky and/or having plot armor. (e.g. Independence Day, V)
  • There's an inscrutable Precursor race protecting or nurturing ickle babies like us and culling the ones who turn out badly. (e.g. 2001: A Space Odyssey, Rendezvous with Rama)
  • It's anime, so who gives a fuck? (e.g. all anime ever)
    • Okay, okay, I'm being unfair. "Serious" anime will adopt one of the above scenarios or something like it. Less serious anime just wants angsty teenagers to pilot giant robots.

Edited by Fighteer on Apr 4th 2021 at 1:26:29 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Belisaurius Artisan of Auspicious Artifacts from Big Blue Nowhere Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Artisan of Auspicious Artifacts
#47: Apr 4th 2021 at 11:32:35 AM

In Dune, Humanity was unique for existing at all.

In Star Wars, we're unique for being ubiquitous.

In Star Trek, we're unique for being excellent diplomats.

In Uplift, we're unique for not being uplifted.

If you don't give humanity something unusual or unique then you either end up with humanity surviving off of Author Fiat and "Pluck" or surviving off the charity of aliens.

Edited by Belisaurius on Apr 4th 2021 at 4:23:47 AM

aPod-ofSeals That there is a seal. from the biggest planet on Earth Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
That there is a seal.
#48: Apr 4th 2021 at 2:06:18 PM

Humans don't have to be special to avoid falling into obscurity or being wiped out. We could avoid obscurity simply by there not being that many sentient spacefaring species near enough to contact, and none of them are that far ahead of us so they don't try to conquer us because it'd be just as bad for them as us even if they won, and if they do try, we stand a chance.

Edited by aPod-ofSeals on Apr 4th 2021 at 4:15:40 AM

Data is imaginary. This burrito is real.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#49: Apr 4th 2021 at 3:32:10 PM

That's well and good but we keep having this discussion from the point of view of classic sci-fi and Space Opera in which FTL allows people to flit around the galaxy like it's to the chemist next door. In that situation, whoever has bigger guns and better ships might decide to take over the others.

A galaxy in which spacefaring civilizations are isolated from each other by the vast gulf of interstellar space and/or time may be more realistic but then you don't get spacecraft going pew pew with lasers, and that's really the point isn't it?

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
DeMarquis Who Am I? from Hell, USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
#50: Apr 4th 2021 at 6:42:46 PM

Um, Sector General says hello, in which we are just one of many species, and nothing special, yet the story is interesting anyway, because all the characters, human and otherwise, are well developed unique individuals. The lesson is: just don't over-rely on "hats". Species differ in physical characteristics, and even psychology, but all of them are relatable to a human audience. (also, pretty much no spaceships going "pew pew" at each other).

Edited by DeMarquis on Apr 4th 2021 at 9:43:19 AM

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."

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