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Total posts: [74]
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Not Thriving: On Site Procurement get usage counts

 1 StarSword, Thu, 9th Jan '14 12:26:40 AM from somewhere in deep space Relationship Status: In denial
SF-81A Black Knight
My best guess is that On Site Procurement has a bad case of Trope-Namer Syndrome (from the Metal Gear franchise specifically). The definition seems to be "upgrades for the player are scattered throughout the game", but that's not too clear either. It also lacks a YKTTW and has 6 examples and 6 wicks.
 2 Another Duck, Thu, 9th Jan '14 2:04:32 AM from Stockholm Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
The way I understand it, the trope would fit any metroidvania game, or adventures, or most games of the RPG game type, where you don't buy stuff from stores. Unless there's also some kind of story component of the trope I'm not sure how to define. But it sure sounds like it would be a whole lot more common than this.
Check out my fanfiction!
 3 the Adeptrogue, Thu, 9th Jan '14 7:17:54 AM Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
iRidescence
I don't know how the system works in the Trope Namer, but as it is, the current definition seems very broad (despite its abysmal wick count).

The basic definition seems to be "gaining/collecting upgrades scattered throughout the game's locations", which seems to be a feature present in almost every single RPG ever. Probably needs to be more clear on whether or not its mutually exclusive with in-game stores (does this trope come into play if, and only if, the setting is completely devoid of stores from which you can buy your upgrades?), and maybe some further clarification on what constitutes as an "upgrade" (does it encompass any items that can be used to improve your character stats, such as potions and equipments, or does it only apply for special items like Plot Coupons that cannot be obtained from normal shops? (assuming the previous question does not count)).

 4 Le Garcon, Thu, 9th Jan '14 7:25:10 AM from Skadovsk Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
In Metal Gear Solid it basically means that despite the fact that you're a super commando badass you go in with almost nothing. Sometimes your pistol and a handful of equipment.

The idea was that if you failed nothing could be traced back to who you were working for. Effectively this mean that you needed to find all your other weapons, gear, food, etc. on site.

So at least in the Trope Namer it applied to plot coupons, upgrades, weapons, gear and just about everything.

Now you could never take any of these things from enemies usually but that's a different thing altogether.

edited 9th Jan '14 7:26:57 AM by LeGarcon

Oh really, when?
 5 Larkmarn, Thu, 9th Jan '14 7:46:30 AM Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
Wow, I assumed it was specifically Metal Gear-style "intentionally sent with nothing to be untraceable." The actual definition seems to be "well, you don't start with all the equipment." Which doesn't seem tropeable (and kinda sounds like With This Herring)

 6 Le Garcon, Thu, 9th Jan '14 8:17:18 AM from Skadovsk Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
You know that's what I assumed too.

Are there that many examples of this though? And need it be limited to strictly video games? Surely there's some books and spy movies where this is a thing.
Oh really, when?
 7 Larkmarn, Thu, 9th Jan '14 8:29:12 AM Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
Probably?

Honestly, I say either whittle this down to MGS-style on-site procurement, or cut it entirely. The description of the actual trope is just With This Herring. MGS-style OSP seems tropeably separate are a justification for With This Herring, but I can't think of any examples off the top of my head.

 8 Le Garcon, Thu, 9th Jan '14 11:19:27 AM from Skadovsk Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
I say not just make it a video game trope and find a bunch more examples. Keep the Metal Gear definition.
Oh really, when?
 9 StarSword, Sat, 11th Jan '14 6:55:03 PM from somewhere in deep space Relationship Status: In denial
SF-81A Black Knight
So, then what's the definition? "Spy (or whatever) has to scrounge their own equipment to lend their employer Plausible Deniability"?
 10 Le Garcon, Sat, 11th Jan '14 8:03:44 PM from Skadovsk Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
More or less
Oh really, when?
 11 shimaspawn, Sat, 11th Jan '14 8:26:32 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
I think there are two tropes here. The spy trope, and the video game trope.

In one, a spy gets everything that they need wandering around.

In the other, video game powers aren't bought with money, or XP, but instead are tucked in random corners around the levels.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 12 Le Garcon, Sun, 12th Jan '14 6:25:28 AM from Skadovsk Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
Yes but I feel like the video game bit isn't that uncommon and could be brought under different tropes.

On Site Procurement and the not tracing back to your employer bit is fairly unique. Especially in the Plausible Deniability aspect
Oh really, when?
 13 shimaspawn, Sun, 12th Jan '14 8:14:12 AM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
It's because it's so common that it needs it's own trope. There is no such thing as being too common to trope. The more common it is, the more it needs it's own trope. Not to be badly lumped into other tropes and cause trope decay.

If something is unique on the other hand, then it's not a trope because it's not a trend or pattern in media. You have it backwards.

edited 12th Jan '14 8:18:45 AM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
"You can pick stuff up during a game" is chairs.

 15 Septimus Heap, Mon, 13th Jan '14 10:11:41 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Christmas worms
Sure? I don't think so - seems like something that would be added to a game for a specific reason.

 16 Le Garcon, Mon, 13th Jan '14 11:33:14 AM from Skadovsk Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
I really feel like there's a separate trope for picking stuff up in video games though, if there is we should move all examples of On Site that deal with that to whatever trope picking stuff up is and make On Site one that deals with the Plausible Deniability aspect of it and expand it past just video games.

If there's not then someone dropped the ball somewhere and we should make it
Oh really, when?
 17 shimaspawn, Mon, 13th Jan '14 2:18:35 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
I think this is trying to be both tropes and I don't know another trope for acquiring things in games by picking them up rather than buying them. Chairs means it has no narrative, plot or gameplay, significance. Game mechanics always have gameplay significance. Therefore game mechanics can not be chairs.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
[up]Does that mean we need a trope for sitting on chairs in videogames, too?

 19 Septimus Heap, Thu, 16th Jan '14 2:57:48 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Christmas worms
Only if it's a game mechanic. And even then, it's possible we have a trope that covers such things already.

 20 Shanghai Slave, Thu, 16th Jan '14 4:39:40 AM from YKTTW Relationship Status: is commanded toŚ WANK!
[up] we actually do. Emote Animation. some games have an animation specifically for sitting, though usually on the floor and not on a chair.
Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?
 21 the Adeptrogue, Thu, 16th Jan '14 5:25:30 AM Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
iRidescence
"video game powers aren't bought with money, or XP, but instead are tucked in random corners around the levels"

Doesn't most video games feature such mechanics (albeit to varying degree)?

 22 Shanghai Slave, Thu, 16th Jan '14 6:46:20 AM from YKTTW Relationship Status: is commanded toŚ WANK!
[up] "scavenger" games follow the MGS OSP to a T. by scavenger, i mean games where your character explicitly have only one type of weapon (or none at all) at the beginning. it's sort of a gameplay integration where you're character explicitly can't buy stuff or have no provisions for some plot reason. so RPG's where you also do OSP but otherwise have shops you can buy from are right out.

what i'm saying is it depends on the genre(Metroidvania apparently sees heavy use for this), some do it on it's own, others do it with shops as well (which is kinda chairs, IMO, both actions are logical, and hence devs Take a Third Option and we have some sort of Omnipresent Trope.)

the other example not there right now i know is Tomb Raider (2013), Lara is stranded on a island, and hence must pickup whatever weapon she finds. not sure about this though as you have to "buy" (salvaged materials are used as currency) upgrades to weapons, but in story and gameplay, it is treated as you picking up whatever trash is around and using those to upgrade your gun, don't think about that too hard.

Devil May Cry would technically count(Dante/Nero has to pick up whatever crap is placed on an altar, since it conveniently is important to activating stuff around the setting of the game) if not for the fact that you can both buy and pick up recovery items and skills (but not weapons), which makes it fall on the "common" end.

edited 16th Jan '14 6:50:09 AM by ShanghaiSlave

Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?
 23 the Adeptrogue, Thu, 16th Jan '14 7:43:59 AM Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
iRidescence
[up]Thank you.

That's what I've been trying to ask about since a while back, since the description itself never bothered clarifying it, making the trope seem far broader than it actually is (not to mention chair-y).

 24 StarSword, Thu, 16th Jan '14 8:52:27 AM from somewhere in deep space Relationship Status: In denial
SF-81A Black Knight
[up][up]Thanks for the clarification, Shanghai.

So, proposal: Split between the game mechanic Shanghai described in post 22, and the story trope of "covert operative, etc., has to scrounge their own equipment to give Plausible Deniability to his employers". (In the trope namer, Trope #2 is the justification for Trope #1.)

edited 16th Jan '14 8:53:56 AM by StarSword

 25 Shanghai Slave, Thu, 16th Jan '14 9:13:16 AM from YKTTW Relationship Status: is commanded toŚ WANK!
which mechanic? o_O

I described two...
Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?

Page Action: On Site Procurement
26th Jan '14 10:21:06 AM
What would be the best way to fix the page?
At issue:
Total posts: 74
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