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Needs Help: Hero Of Another Story get usage counts

Raven Wilder
The way the description's written, it seems overly focused on Star Trek style action/adventure shows, when this trope is hardly limited to action/adventure stories. And, despite what the description says, I don't think it's necessary that the Main Characters be part of a large organization, either. Based on the examples, it seems like the core of the trope is that there's a peripheral or supporting character who's shown/hinted to have storylines of their own happening off-screen, which we don't see because none of our Main Characters are involved in it. But paragraphs like:

Such a character will come in handy to establish that the folks back at base are actually doing something when our heroes get captured. Though they will rarely succeed in rescuing the captured heroes, they may end up leading The Cavalry to sweep up after the Blast Out. In general, the Hero Of Another Story will be a competent professional but will lack whatever special gift or drive makes our hero so special or else act as a Supporting Leader and occupy the enemy while the main characters go after the Golden Snitch.

make this trope sound like something much more narrow.
"It takes an idiot to do cool things, that's why it's cool" - Haruhara Haruko
 2 Septimus Heap, Wed, 1st Jan '14 3:51:43 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
I strongly feel that the tacked-on qualifiers can safely be removed.

Agree. Something more along the lines of the entry for An Officer and a Gentleman: "if the camera started following her around, there'd be a damn good movie in there". This is a pretty good definition for the characters this trope applies to.

 4 Shanghai Slave, Mon, 13th Jan '14 2:15:43 AM from YKTTW Relationship Status: is commanded toŚ WANK!
semi relevant discussion regarding this in YKTTW. Apparently, some people think this is actually (or also) Supporting Hero: A The Hero who is not a main character.
Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?
 6 Shanghai Slave, Wed, 15th Jan '14 10:15:34 PM from YKTTW Relationship Status: is commanded toŚ WANK!
[up] someone's already asked the same exact question there so just read the answer there.
Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?
Then why did we bring the discussion here? If there isn't anything more to say about Hero of Another Story lets make the edits, and close this thread up.
 
 8 Shanghai Slave, Fri, 17th Jan '14 6:50:53 AM from YKTTW Relationship Status: is commanded toŚ WANK!
[up] I was thinking maybe it is indeed Hero of Another Story and if it was, propose to merge the two.
As far as i'm concerned, that's relevant here, as the problem here is exactly because the description is unclear,
so i thought maybe knowing what we're looking at here (Hero of Another Story or Non Agonist Hero?) would help further the discussion.

I'd rather not waste my time fleshing out something we already have.

edited 17th Jan '14 6:51:06 AM by ShanghaiSlave

Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?
Raven Wilder
That YKTTW kinda sounds like a The Same but More Specific version of this trope. Hero of Another Story is where a character isn't the star of the story we're watching, but is the star of another story that's taking place (mostly) off-screen. Two-Bit Hero sounds like it's basically the same thing, except with the provision that the Hero of Another Story be a traditional Bad Ass Chosen One who saves the world, while the people starring in the main story are not. I'm not sure if that's really tropeworthy, though there might be something to the idea of "epic story with huge consequences goes on in the background, while a smaller scale story takes the spotlight".

Now, all that said, where do we stand on trimming out the large organization requirement and action/adventure show specifics in the description?

edited 17th Jan '14 5:06:15 PM by RavenWilder

"It takes an idiot to do cool things, that's why it's cool" - Haruhara Haruko
 10 Shanghai Slave, Fri, 17th Jan '14 6:58:02 PM from YKTTW Relationship Status: is commanded toŚ WANK!
See, i knew i'd get another guy who'd say that.

anyway:

I'd argue it's different, Two Bit Hero works like Satellite Character: He's The Hero of a story that is not his own. outside of the story where he's a Two Bit Hero, he's just an Everyman, at worse: a Redshirt in someone else's story. so he doesn't even get to be Hero of Another Story.

if you look at the examples, it doesn't even take into account on the possibility of offscreen adventures. the character is simply The Hero who's out to kill the Bigger Bad. and his adventures are directly tied to the conflict of The Protagonist.

The usage of Hero of Another Story shows that people already know that it's supposed to be about a minor character (who is not The Hero, archetype wise or not) who gets offscreen character development or adventures as The Protagonist of his own story.

the one example there that strikes me most is Gaara. also Kakashi (who is noted to have had his own Kakashi Gaiden thing). There's also Misaka of A Certain Magical Index, who actually gets her own story— and it's actually about her offscreen adventures in A Certain Magical Index to boot. They all cannot possibly go under Two Bit Hero by virtue of not being The Hero archetype.

And the problem here is that the description is too biased on Star Trek. so is the action to rewrite it to sound more generic?

edited 17th Jan '14 7:09:15 PM by ShanghaiSlave

Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?
Raven Wilder
Okay, it's sounding more like Two-Bit Hero is where someone who's built up as The Hero, and has lots of traditionally heroic traits, ends up not being all that important, and other characters, who we wouldn't normally think of as being hero-material, are the ones who actually get stuff done? Is that about right?

And, yes, the current description for Hero of Another Story keeps describing it in terms specific to action/adventure shows in the vein of Star Trek. I want to rewrite it so it's applicable to all genres. There seems to be a general vibe of agreement so far, just wondering if we've had enough people weigh in on the matter to go ahead and do it.
"It takes an idiot to do cool things, that's why it's cool" - Haruhara Haruko
i'd say do it
 
[up][up]But we already have that one don't we? Miles Glorious or something...
 
 14 Shanghai Slave, Sun, 19th Jan '14 12:30:44 AM from YKTTW Relationship Status: is commanded toŚ WANK!
Raven Wilder
<sigh> why, WHY, the description is nothing but disambiguations and yet I still cannot convey the trope as "The Hero is a minor character"! TT_TT.

anyway, no, it's not like that, if anything, the Protagonists are Hero Secret Service to the minor character The Hero. other examples there have the protagonists as either Supporting Protagonist or Villain Protagonist disqualifying them from being Hero Protagonist.

anyway, let's drop the subject. it's clear to me that this one just adds more confusion.

as for a decision, there needs to be a single proposition crowner. click the exclamation point "click to message mods" button on any post here and ask for one.


@13 Sackett, it's not even close to Miles Gloriosus and doesn't even have anything to do with that.

edited 19th Jan '14 12:33:42 AM by ShanghaiSlave

Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?
Well... then it sounds like what you are describing is a story that is focused on the Hero's helpers and supporters rather then the hero.

Sort of a Lower Deck Episode but that is the whole story/series instead of an occasional diversion from the main story.

Rather then focusing on the "Hero is a supporting character" element, it seems more natural to approach it as a trope about telling the story of the supporting case.

EDIT: Looks like we have this one covered by The Greatest Story Never Told and Innocent Bystander Series

edited 19th Jan '14 9:11:26 AM by Sackett

 
 16 Shanghai Slave, Sun, 19th Jan '14 10:04:53 AM from YKTTW Relationship Status: is commanded toŚ WANK!
[up] I dropped that subject. if you still want to talk about that, see here.

as for "we already have this covered", none of those three are close. and your interpretation is completely from the left field. have you even read the examples? I know i sound scathing, but i find it pretty annoying that i cannot convey the simple concept of "The Hero is a Minor Character" in a way that is easily understandable. it is not about a plot but about a character.

anyway, what is the single proposition for this? "expand description to not limit to star trek style adventures"?

but the usage is already pretty damn broad... nobody even reads the star trek stuff in the description apparently

edited 19th Jan '14 10:09:01 AM by ShanghaiSlave

Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?
Raven Wilder
Okay, I've rewritten the description. Unless anyone thinks it should be worded differently, I'd say it's safe to close this thread.
"It takes an idiot to do cool things, that's why it's cool" - Haruhara Haruko
 18 Shanghai Slave, Tue, 21st Jan '14 12:57:55 AM from YKTTW Relationship Status: is commanded toŚ WANK!
liking it. I support the closing.
Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?
There needs to be an explanation between the current definition and usages of Lower Deck Episode and Spin-Off.

Also, the tropes wicked in the description should cross wick back to this trope.

edited 21st Jan '14 2:30:45 AM by crazysamaritan

Still new. Still learning. Asking questions and making mistakes.
"Compare Lower Deck Episode, where minor characters get a brief chance to shine, or Spin-Off, where the character gets an entire series devoted to them."

Would that work?
Yes. That should do. Somewhere in the last two paragraphs of the description?
Still new. Still learning. Asking questions and making mistakes.
I put it as the last line. How's it look?
 23 Septimus Heap, Tue, 21st Jan '14 11:50:06 PM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Seems fine for me.

All right then, hollering for a lock.
The system doesn't know you right now, so no post button for you.
You need to Get Known to get one of those.
Total posts: 24
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