What to do about Ballet

Could you please explain that last bit in simpler terms? Because I don't think I got all that.

I'll soon create a YKTTW for another of the tropes listed in the Sandbox. But which of the listed tropes should I YKTTW next? (Ballet Episode is still being developed at YKTTW, though it seems to have stalled for now.)

Calling the trope Dainty Little Ballet makes the name refer to the dance form, or the theatre form. Using "Ballerinas" or "Ballet Dancers" makes it clear that its about the way the characters are presented. "Ballerinas" is the female form of the term; "ballet dancers" is gender neutral and would include male dancers being presented as slight or delicate (relative to non-dancers) in build.

Frankly, from what [little] I've seen of ballet, the male dancers need some pretty decent musculature to handle those moves and toss around the female dancers the way they do. Calling them "dainty" would be something of a mistake. The females, however, have to be practically waifish. That's the impression that I get, anyway.

edited 25th Dec '13 6:16:20 AM by Fighteer

Real male ballet dancers, or ones appearing in fiction?

Well, that's true for real life and real ballets. But in many other works they are still seen as "dainty", and that's is pretty much the trope. Like in a "Billy Elliot" Plot.

edited 25th Dec '13 7:21:54 AM by m8e

Yep. Tropes are about fiction, and in fiction, male ballet dancers are often presented as slight, small men, compared to other males in the same work. The fact that they're also incredibly strong for their size is usually either ignored or used as the punchline of a gag of some kind.

Oh, and real life female ballet dancers — maybe small and waifish in appearance, but also incredibly strong.

edited 25th Dec '13 7:14:30 AM by Madrugada

OK, I've got a YKTTW open for Dainty Little Ballet Dancers, but out of the blue, someone threw in something about the ridiculousness of ballet costumes in certain media. Both another troper and I figured out it'd be a different trope, but which trope would it be?

Could it be lumped with whatever we have for ridiculously improbable armor?

I'd say no. Dance costumes and armor are quite different. Dance costumes are supposed to look good, and not get in your way too badly. Armor is supposed to protect you. The only thing they have in common is that the improbable type don't do what they're supposed to do.

^^ That would be a subtrope of both Impossibly Cool Clothes and (for the ladies) Pimped-Out Dress.

UPDATE: I just came up with a name for that potential trope: Tutu Fancy.

edited 30th Dec '13 8:55:57 PM by ryanasaurus0077

Oh, and doing anything en pointe (with or without shoes; and all the way, not just standing on the balls of the feet) without the necessary years of rigorous training. In Angelina Ballerina and similar kiddie shows or books where tots with ages in the single digits go en pointe here and there. It has a similar pattern in Pony Tales where fresh beginners go jumping, fox hunting, and trail riding without company about as soon as they're in the saddle. This was more prevalent in older works though, I barely ever see it these days.

edited 31st Dec '13 5:21:49 PM by peccantis

Now that one I'm stumped for titles. XP

Oh! How about Spring Pointe, in reference to spring's association with youth?

Courtesy links to YKTTW threads:

• https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=93an9px0tl5el7vb3y0e47ku proficiency-inappropriate en pointe
• https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=m7g1rf8qdoet4jxhgxiuzt49 "Dainty little ballet dancers"
• https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=hpo51xiacasihddxamlmuwf3 ballet episode
• https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=bsokpw9rceuu5ynycvpu2zky musical numbers in ballet pieces

No YKTTW for dangerously frilly "ballet" costumes or association of ballet with pink girly pinkness as of yet.

edited 7th Jan '14 12:10:45 AM by peccantis

I think you missed one.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=juzugue3a8jy4f5drje8ckh9 tutu fancy

Also, the one at top is being retooled to being about pointe dancing in general because apparently "age-inappropriate en pointe" is Too Rare To Trope.

edited 5th Jan '14 11:02:33 PM by ryanasaurus0077

A new YKTTW overnight:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=jeqoskpzsq9igqplcp0foggb ballet equals affluence

One thing that has been bugging me about the various proposals was that many of them has felt unfocused. I didn't work it out until yesterday.

Is a given trope a trope about ballet, or used by ballet, or both? Put another way, is the ballet the topic of the trope, or is ballet a medium which uses the trope?

Pointe dancing, when viewed as about ballet, is about how pointe dancing is used as a signifier for ballet dancing and so on. When viewed as used by ballet, it's about the role that pointe plays in the ballet, and the aesthetic it shows.

It depends.

Why do I get the feeling that this YKTTW seems to be the only ballet-related YKTTW (apart from one for Dancing Is Unmanly) that's been getting any love lately?

Not just bumping.

It has come to my attention that someone on ATT got worried about Ballet being listed on a Character page. This is the first time I've ever heard about such a thing happening; as far as I know, Ballet has appeared on Character pages without incident before. Now, I feel more obliged than ever to make the proposed Ballet Tropes, including those that are currently in YKTTW, into workable Trope pages. Anyone willing to lend a hand in that regard, please do so. Ballet needs more than just a Useful Notes page here. It's got quite a bit of troping potential, and I wish to see that this potential is realized, no matter how long it takes.

edited 5th Apr '14 4:22:48 AM by ryanasaurus0077

KJ Noren: yep. Some tropes are probably the same, in and out of a ballet work (like tutus; an impractical design would only be given to lead characters, not the chorus). But most Ballet tropes probably symbolize something about ballet that isn't true in actual ballet.

En Pointe is a great example of being two different tropes, depending on if the work is "real" ballet, or "about" ballet.

Right... I guess one of the highest priority ballet YKTTW's at the moment should be Straight to the Pointe.

New ballet-related trope added: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=7wqg8k89eyqfdp5uefeb0asz

Ballet Episode got a new entry in light of a couple of recent leakages regarding the upcoming HappinessCharge Pretty Cure! movie, but it's going to need some help now, more than Straight to the Pointe does right now.

Perhaps the description is too clunky?

edited 27th Jun '14 1:58:40 AM by ryanasaurus0077