Did Heavily Edited Early Anime dubs help the anime industry?

I think shows like Voltron And Battle Of The Planets were actually quite good for the anime industry.

Sandy Frank's Bot P was instrumental in making people that anime was, for better or worse, profitable. And it introced lots of 70's youngsters to Anime.

Voltron made history when it became the first animated show with stereophonic sound! And it was quite popular too!

What do you guys think?

Yep. Whether you like it or not, most people wouldn't even be anime fans if it weren't for those old, badly edited dubs.

Well, they increased awareness if nothing else, so they helped in that sense.

They worked fine for their time and circumstances.

Thanks, that's my favorite response so far!

That's kinda how I learned about the original incarnations like G-Force was based from Gatchaman, which is the true source.

Although my bro doesn't want to see it that way.

Well, if we are feeling generous we could say that they made anime easier to digest by the audience, thus more wide in space... Who knows, maybe we actually liked those dumb dubs as a kid?

Note that I'm not american, so my perspective isn't right for the thing.

Wasn't really old enough to grow up with them.

Though companies trying to that style now (Saban, 4KidsEntertainment) are laughed at, for good reasons of course.

edited 24th Oct '13 4:17:47 PM by Demongodofchaos2

Samurai Pizza Cats is another one. Not sure if it severely helped, but the Gag Dub did really damn well.

Is Digimon early enough to count? Or is that not edited enough?

The early digimon dub, while having it's own issues, is a godsend compared to even 4Kid's stuff at the time. Devimon, for instance would probably have never flew by on 4kid's Radar (I actually find surprising him and his ilk of Demon typoe digimon didn't get the Fundies on Saban's ass).

edited 24th Oct '13 5:11:31 PM by Demongodofchaos2

I wasn't talking about that, though.

I know it's a Gag Dub too, but I don't know if it's early enough in Anime Dub history or a heavy enough edit for the purpose of this topic.

And I didn't mind a lot of 4Kids stuff anyway. The only thing I didn't like was that stupid hammer looking weapon in the early episodes of One Piece. Beyond that, nothing really bothered me. Pokemon was one of their best dubs. I enjoyed Mew Mew Power honestly. And I severely loved their theme songs. Also, their edit of Shaman King was surprisingly good considering everything. People do oversay their dubbing problems quite a bit.

I agree with the sentiment that it created awareness.

I was an anime fan before I even understood what Anime was. Once I realized that some of the older shows I watched were anime as well, I was rather amazed truthfully.

They didn't hurt it in the long run...I guess.

Maybe, maybe not. I have a feeling that its behind a lot of the heat in the Dub vs Sub wars, especially back in the day. Especially since a lot of this stuff was cut up before dubbing so the only way to get the original version was pray for a subtitled version (fansubbed or professional). Granted it died down after the introduction of DVD and rise of companies dedicated to releasing anime, but it left a mark.

Also retrospectively these changes probably helped re-enforce the Animation Age Ghetto which caused older anime fans a lot of grief.

And the thing is that stuff like Voltron, Astro Boy (1980s version) and Robotech there really wasn't what you'd call an anime industry, at least not in the Anglosphere. Before Manga Entertainment, Viz and their contemporaries pretty much everything was English language production companies producing their own stuff and increasing their catalogue with dubbed anime series that they licensed.

Finally, I don't think Samurai Pizza Cats is a good example since, if there are any truth to the legends, they were kind of winging it to start with because they didn't have access to the scripts (or at least not in a timely fashion).

This actually discussed on the Macekre page.

Also, there is a reason we have the Woolseyism trope and why YMMV as to which trope applies to an edited dub.

Woolseysm is not the same as a Macekre. Its a mis-translation intentionally made to fit the meaning of the original work and convey it to an international audience.

Example:

Perdon! literally means "Forgiveness!",but the true meaning is "Forgive me". It can be used in many different contexts.

Voltron and Battle Of The Planets ARE endearing "Mistranslations" the same way a Woolseysm is one but they are not the same thing.

Also. It helps that Voltron is thought to be a whole new show compared to Golion. Same with Battle Of The Planets.

I think you could go back further, with stuff like Kimba the White Lion, Speed Racer and Astro Boy, back in the 60s.

Although I don't know if they were heavily edited or not - I haven't seen enough to compare.

(Most anime of the 60s, 70s and 80s, by the way, was never released in America. A few did arrive in the 90s via Saban Entertainment, but so far, most of it hasn't been released and never will. Shame, too, because in my opinion, it was the best time for anime.)

I love Go Lion. But there are things in it that would never have made it on American TV, kids or no. Remember the one with the Red Berets? Well, the Go Lion version is comparable to the first ten minutes of Elfen Lied. Some of the dubs are eye-rollers, and some are actually clever. In the one where Lotor and Hagar fake the Princess' death to kidnap her later, the Voltron Force in the dub tumble to the scheme early, where the Go Lion force doesn't till Sincline & Honerva try to steal Fala's body - but it actually makes more sense for them to figure it out, given that in both cases they're dealing with a stalker and a sorceress. The only unforgivable moment comes when they learn the true fate of Raible/Coran's family. The dub gives the explanation that they're alive in another dimension, this despite showing footage of a young woman holding a baby while being fired upon by an attacking spaceship.

Its like the infamous White Covers of African-American songs. Some are decent, some are butcher jobs - almost all screwed over their original creators, but it did create backhanded awareness of the purer product, brought forward to an audience that might never have heard of it otherwise.

Plus, without Voltron we would never have had Peter Cullen as the Narrator/Hawkins.

All true.

Usually the most clever anime dubs are those that were never released in the USA.

I honestly don't know why people put Saban Entertainment on the same level as 4Kids...

edited 8th Dec '13 6:14:56 AM by Aldo930

Mostly because in a way, they helped start the trend of Lull Destruction on a wide scale.

And that is it? Just that? I'd hoped the reason was better.

I don't mind Lull Destruction myself; but even the people who used it knew when not to...

Is there a better reason for why Saban and 4Kids are considered to be on the same level?

Except the Lull Destruction isn't needed in stuff like digimon, and it implies that Viewers Are Morons if there isn't any dialogue in previously quite moments.

They may helped in the sense they did expose more people to the industry. However, does that means they needed to be heavily edited to do the same thing? I doubt it.

In my country, my generation (I born in 1990) didn't have to put up with bullshit Macekre editing as much as USA audiences. Things like Card Captor Sakura and Dragon Ball Z came here relatively unedited, at last compared to how they were in US, and, yet, were popular all the same. They served as Gateway Series for a whole generation without issues and anime become really popular.

So, while heavily edits may have "helped", they would still do so without being edited in the first place. As such I seriously challenge the notion those edits were ever necessary.

edited 8th Dec '13 8:33:09 AM by Heatth

Not all of Saban's anime dubs were Digimon. They made a lot of them, most of which were never shown in the US.

Foreign countries often have different standards than America for what gets shown on TV. Airing unedited anime over here back in the day would've likely upset Moral Guardians.

edited 8th Dec '13 4:19:56 PM by PhysicalStamina