My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic - Characters Discussion Thread

Because the general thread is forever active, I've decided to create a separate thread talking about the characters, plots, etc

I guess we'll also discuss best "plot"?

Are you sure we need this? I don't mean to sound hostile. I just wonder if its necessary.

Yeah, the main thread is basically meant to discuss this exact thing, and it really doesn't go that fast. This just seems a bit redundant. If you want to discuss the characters, just ask about them in the main thread.

Not to mention that there isn't much news to discuss, being between seasons and all that.

This could be a permanent home for discussions of Celestia's power level, Earth pony superstrength and/or complete uselessness, and who should have won the Iron Pony competition.

I admit the thread is very erratic at times, not to mention is often reduced to a generic chat thread. We will need some depthful discussion however, especially since as mentioned, nothing is happening with the show at this point.

As an attempt to pivot the discussion, which pony do you think has had the most Character Development so far?

edited 18th Jul '13 3:58:50 PM by Psi001

I think that honor goes to Rainbow Dash. You can check my sig for reasons why I think so.

I agree Rainbow Dash is one that has perhaps profited the most from being a Dynamic Character. Next to everything that was supposedly annoying about her before has in hindsight became pivotal to her development.

I admit I kinda like how Twilight 'developed', albeit maybe more because I like seeing the more lucid Straight Man characters getting brought down to the same level as the others, given as you said in your impressive analysis, the treatment is slightly haphazardous in hindsight.

As for AJ, I think right now she's a character the writers are struggling to fully comprehend (it helps most of AJ's early spotlight was done by a writer who has been absent for most of the later half of the show). Season Three seemed like it attempted a bit of Character Rerailment, though execution was a bit lackluster.

edited 18th Jul '13 5:14:23 PM by Psi001

Questionable humor and moral aside I think that that was done better in Feeling Pinkie Keen then in the episodes that came after. Though I guess that comes from (as I stated in my analysis) that being the last time we see anything of her "pilot" personality.

I guess I like episodes like Lesson Zero a bit more since they stem her Not So Above It All moments from a more evident personality defect, while most of her early ones didn't seem quite as specific and more a generic 'Straight Man thinks they're more clever than they really are' moment.

It could have been handled better, but I like her with this key defining vice. I do kinda miss her being more acerbic, but I guess that goes into her socially developing.

edited 18th Jul '13 5:19:12 PM by Psi001

Well like I side. It's not a character trait that comes completely out of no where, but there was nothing that really built her up as being that OCD until that very episode. In fact the beginning of the episode is devoted almost entirely to establishing that fact. It almost seemed like they were introducing Twilight as a new main character really.

They did it a little in the first season like with Look Before You Sleep. She was at least established as a rather meticulous character initially so it played naturally into her to some extent. Then again maybe the reason it was rarely seen as a key point was why I thought Twilight wasn't as distinct a character until Lesson Zero (I kinda thought she was at risk of being the Standardized Leader beforehand). At least it didn't end up a Compressed Vice and they found better more subtle ways to seep it into her overall characterization afterwards.

edited 18th Jul '13 5:44:24 PM by Psi001

You are right in that it probably didn't come up because she had to fulfill the role of team leader and straight mare the first season, as well as writing all of the letters. It was a good thing that Lesson Zero freed her up too take other roles, but I personally feel they went to far in the other direction so to speak.

I kind of feel that since the writers have sort of given her the straight mare role they are loath to explore her in any new way. It also doesn't help that several of her flaws are shared with other characters who express them more overtly.

edited 18th Jul '13 5:59:26 PM by Mio

I agree it didn't get kinda overdone, though we do at least get some feasible CharacterChecks (eg. Mmmystery). I kinda feel that since Season Two they've had a harder time maintaining a balance between the good and bad points of the cast, the similarly more lucid AJ took the opposite direction for example and became more 'normal' while Rarity and Pinkie have become more 'walking gag-ish'.

RD's Character Development is punctuated since it about the one that has rather solidly kept this balance (albeit ironically considering the complaints for Season Two).

Concerning AJ, I may beg to differ, since while it did start off that way, ironically most of said vices that driven AJ (eg. ornery, self righteous) have actually disappeared with other characters as they began to get their key ones established more (RD is less confrontational and temperamental, more driven by narcissism now, while Twilight, while still occasionally pious, is now more neuroses prone and meticulous). Not to mention they seemed to all merge together better with AJ in terms of making a fuller personality trait, especially given her whole Hot-Blooded cowgirl image. We did get a decent Character Check for AJ in "Keep Calm and Flutter On" however.

edited 18th Jul '13 6:10:14 PM by Psi001

That's actually what I meant concerning AJ. Her most broad flaws, such as her pride and some of her ego-driven activites were traits she shared with Rarity and RD, but expressed them in a more subdued (though quite different and not necessarily worst) fashion, so they may have decided that it was "funnier"/"more entertaining" with the others and decided to "phase it out".

As for season two, I think it was a season that was ultimately more comedy and gag driven then the other two which may have accounted for some of the character imbalance. I personally think Season three was better about this.

edited 18th Jul '13 6:11:54 PM by Mio

It's hard to say since Rarity and RD's ego is more in terms of narcissism and self obsession, while AJ's ego is more in terms of self righteousness, a character who is putting others into concern but has an 'I know what's best for you more than you do' attitude and too easily losing her hair when someone is supposedly acting out of line. As said Twilight did have this trait as well, but got it nuanced around the same time AJ did.

It's a shame since it sorta works well in terms of her fleshing out her Team Mom role and being a bit of a comedic Knight Templar Parent in terms of keeping order.

I do agree that it probably has trouble because it's not as over the top as some others (par maybe her cowgirl mannerisms to it all, which are more superfluous), and I think Season Three was trying to get her back into form, just execution struggled because of this problem (and the season's own problem of pacing and padding issues).

At the very least we need one more AJ vs RD episode. They're classic.

edited 18th Jul '13 6:28:27 PM by Psi001

Oh, I agree with your thoughts on AJ. Too further contrast her pride with both Rarity and RD is that while they both came from a sort of aspiration for greater things and an insecurity in their positions and futures, Applejack's comes from being complete secure in her position and abilities and has achieved her desired place in the world. It's another nice little area of potential conflict that was never really exploited.

I was also talking more of Season 3 in general, for AJ specifically season 3 didn't do much of anything (though seeing her take out the timber wolves was pretty cool).

edited 18th Jul '13 6:39:23 PM by Mio

At the same time however AJ also worries greatly about having said position tarnished due to ruining her reputation or letting people down. Her only doubt is her Self-Deprecation when defeated (eg. The Last Roundup) leading her to believe she doesn't deserve her role.

It might slightly mirror Twilight's overzealous passion for her profession with Celestia, in that they both cling to their ideals so tightly they'll do anything to prevent things getting in the way, though as said execution is different.

It's a nice little contrast actually, since it shows that the more 'obnoxious' characters, for all their selfish moments, are more savvy to their problems and willing to learn, the 'lucid' ones however are so insured they have things right that they can sometimes reach higher more dire circumstances. I think this is what a lot of shows neglect since they so rarely play on Straight Man vices, and just play the 'one guys always right, ones always wrong' to point one can escalate into a Designated Hero and have their flaws and Never My Fault complex enabled.

In hindsight, I think Apple Family Reunion did play into her overzeal with family virtues, it's just the plot didn't go very far (for reasons Japanese Teeth's review analysed with better depth). As said Keep Calm and Flutter On did have a decent Character Check but admittedly there wasn't much after that, even her positive Straight Man roles seemed a tad generic (par 'Sleepless In Ponyville', where she worked very well as a warm 'sister figure' to contrast RD).

edited 18th Jul '13 6:53:47 PM by Psi001

That is true. I just think it would help to set the three seemingly samey traits apart, and gives another avenue for conflict. It reminds me of how in MMDW that AJ was the first to complain about RD's showboating or when she didn't pick up and was dismissive of RD's anxeity in Sonic Rainboom. It kind of has thinking that maybe AJ would be much more dismissive and unhelpful, or even admonishing her for having some of them. with some of RD's personal concerns. Kind of similar to what happened in Lesson Zero but involving those two.

I think AJ's character bulk and motives revolve around her family values and virtues and wanting to keep things lawful and so everyone is happy (or at least everyone she thinks deserves it). That makes her caring and ready to nurture peers selflessly, but a tad 'black and white' to anyone that betrays those values or is implied not to act the same. As shown in Ponyville Confidential, even her own little sister can come under the brunt of this and become a pariah (though not explained in the episode itself, I suppose this also adds Fridge Brilliance why she was also Easily Forgiven after a simple apology and explanation).

This often makes her stubborn, though as shown in cases like Lesson Zero she is quick to repent when she realizes such treatment makes her uncaring and betray her ethics.

I suppose this is where the cowgirl getup makes sense since it concerns simplistic old fashioned values, which in this modern world people can debate as being better or worse than what is done now (something we need to see more of concerning her interaction with Twilight as well, who is very modern and cold but logical thinking, I'd love to see an episode mocking modern political correctness with the two).

edited 18th Jul '13 7:30:37 PM by Psi001