Your favorite, personal "Draco In Leather Pants" Characters

I know we all feel guilty for liking a character that is actually supposed to be disliked.

• I like The GREAT and powerful TRIXIE!!!! Although she can be a jerkass, I loved how she was just as good with magic as Twilight Sparkle (I love her too). However, I didn't like how she was drunk with power and drove Twilight away from Ponyville.

• I also like/tolerate Plankton from Spongebob. Although he is as bad as Krabs, Plankton at least gets his karmic punishments while Krabs doesn't.

edited 9th Feb '13 8:26:46 PM by MsCC93

A lot of cases for me are sort of the middle ground of it, since it doesn't seem they are meant to be disliked per se, they are designed to be sympathetic, just the writers underestimate just how much so, either by putting too many pathos into the character (or not enough for the opposing one) or not balancing it with a proper sense karma. Many a bumbling Villain Protagonist can fall under this area for example.

Tom was allegedly a mass case, with claims Hanna Barbara got letters from fans put off how much abuse he took. Supposedly this is what made his treatment lighter in their later shorts.

Elmer Fudd is actually a case that caught on with the actual WB staff. Friz Freleng actually started to think Elmer was so sympathetic that Bugs Bunny looked like a bully against him.

My own personal case, probably the Urpneys from The Dreamstone. While I usually do oversympathise with villains a lot, this is of the few cartoons I actually genuinely thought the heroes looked like asses a lot of times they went up against the villains. Sgt Blob and Urpgor at least are still jerkasses though, if very pitiable ones. Frizz and Nug aren't very evil or even jerkish at all, if still rather apathetic to anything they do.

edited 9th Feb '13 9:41:19 PM by Psi001

The Decepticons. Of course, it's only because they have cooler names. They're still evil robotic sonsabitches.

Of course, don't you know anything about ALCHEMY?!- Twin clones of Ivan the Great

@2 I agree with you. I believe the majority of characters who do fall into the trope aren't actually supposed to be disliked (Kankers from Ed Edd N Eddy and Vlad from Danny Phantom)

I was just about to mention Tom..I actually like him, despite him being a jerkass. The fact that fans wrote letters said a lot about his treatment.

I don't remember the Bugs and Elmer thing because I haven't watched Looney Tunes in a long time. To be honest, the only time I actually sided with Elmer him 100% was in this Looney Tunes online game when you were timed to plant carrots on the field and keep Bugs from picking them up. I remember hating Bugs simply because of that game. SMH.

edited 9th Feb '13 8:40:16 PM by MsCC93

Admitedly I didn't mind the Bugs vs Elmer shorts that much either. The only ones I can think where Bugs really crossed the line were the early Screwy Squirrel ones where Elmer wasn't a villain anyway. Otherwise Elmer was likeable, but still kinda a smug asshole trying to blow Bugs' brains out.

Granted it may be because he was refering to the earlier 40s shorts, which I haven't seen in a long while. Most of the Elmer shorts I have memories of are the late 40s and 50s ones, where the transition was already taking place and Bugs was kinda easy going.

I remember feeling a lot of sympathy for Sylvester at times though, he seemed more pathetic than Elmer and had that sort of "everything's out to get him because he's a cat" vibe many complain about with Tom. Also unlike Tom, Sylvester had only a very small handful of Bone Throws. Sorta ironic considering it was Freleng that made most of the Sylvester shorts. Still he was a predator, and he was pretty smug about it.

edited 9th Feb '13 8:53:33 PM by Psi001

@ 5 One of the only ones I remember was when Elmer attempted to kill Bugs and Bugs cross-dressed as a female and Elmer eventually saw through his disguise, then Bugs played-dead. It was actually a Bittersweet Ending between the two, when Elmer picked up Bugs and Bugs was actually alive.

I also liked the Rowdyruff Boys from the Powerpuff girls for being competent villains and also funny (Boomer).

"What's Opera Doc?" I believe is the one you're refering to. Which is considered one of the most iconic Looney Tunes shorts ever.

"Well what did ya expect in an opera, a HAPPY ending?"

Of course, don't you know anything about ALCHEMY?!- Twin clones of Ivan the Great

I feel the same way about Taffyta Muttonfudge (the Draco of Wreck-It Ralph?). There's a special joy in watching a braggart you know is going to fall on her face soon enough. And though she led a gang of bullies, Taffyta herself was led by a propaganda campaign that even convinced Ralph for a while, so you can't completely blame her.

If I remember, it's not that Friz Freleng thought that Elmer was particularly sympathetic, just that he felt he was an idiot and no real danger to Bugs. But then again, he did describe Bugs's heckling him as being akin to "picking on a child" so perhaps I'm mistaken. This of course led to Friz's creation of Yosemite Sam.

I never found Elmer to be particularly sympathetic. There are times when, at the outset, he seems like he doesn't deserve what's happening to him, but his subsequent behavior usually justifies it. Remember, Elmer usually begins the shorts he's in intent on killing, and sometimes eating, Bugs. He's innocent, but with a bent towards homicidal destruction, which makes him, as it does Mr.Smee from Peter Pan for example, kind of fridge-terrifying. He may be a child, but he's a child with a gun and the desire to kill something with it.

Scar, Daffy when he's a dick, Marvin the Martian, Aku, The Rowdy Ruff boys.

edited 10th Feb '13 12:32:22 AM by Vertigo_High

It's hard to say since Sam himself (along with other Freleng villains like Sylvester) were usually complete pushovers as well, just they were more belligerent about it than Elmer. Elmer was a jerk, but there were times he was a lot more meek than the other villains, and also had that whole 'forgot he was the villain' demeanor (eg. he spends the whole Hunting trilogy being goaded by Daffy into shooting the wrong guy, and is led to remorse whenever he thinks he's actually killed Bugs). The fact that Freleng usually placed him in affable Everyman roles afterwards only enthasised this.

Sam was rarely if ever an actual threat for Bugs (if anything Elmer actually was still more formidable due to earning a few Team Rocket Wins moments) just his more sadistic, borderline Card-Carrying Villain demeanor pretty much made him a perfect Asshole Victim. He was also one of the first truly arrogant and bull headed villains, he always came back for more, so you always thought Bugs' abuse on him was defensive and brought upon himself, compared to some of Bugs' earlier meeker villains, where he was portrayed as more merciless and sometimes dragged them back for more himself if he was disatisfied with their initial punishment.

Marvin was of the few villains intentionally created to be Not So Harmless and bring true fear into Bugs (if still increasingly pitiful at times) largely to balance his more affable and impersonal demeanor.

edited 10th Feb '13 7:12:56 AM by Psi001

It helps Marvin's cred that he often was paired against the mostly incompetent Duck Dodgers instead of Bugs, making him look much more competent by comparison.

Actually most of his appearances were against Bugs, just his one appearance against Daffy became his most iconic.

Daffy was kinda the Straw Loser, pretty much anytime he went up against a Butt-Monkey, they beat him easily and earned a Team Rocket Wins moment. There were exceptions however (arguably Taz's most spectacular loss was against Daffy rather than Bugs, while the Elmer vs Daffy shorts had a rather even win/loss ratio).

edited 10th Feb '13 7:29:44 AM by Psi001

@7 It was actually brilliant. "Kill the rabbit, kill the rabbit!!!

@9 Honestly, I've never heard of that character, but I do like the Small Name, Big Ego character with his/her Break the Haughty moments. However, you won't ever catch me excusing their jerkass behavior unless its a Protagonist-Centered Morality episode.

Gilda, because griffons… ugh, I prefer "gryphon", myself… are awesome. :D

Elaborate...I don't like/hate Gilda though. I also thought Discord was too silly to be taken seriously.

I dunno, just the design and voice maybe. And I interpret her being somewhat nice to Rainbow Dash, but a total bitch to anyone else, as a bit of a Jerkass Woobie side. I just think it'd be interesting to flesh her out, and see if she's truly always the way she was to the other ponies.

Also, she reminds me slightly of a G-rated version of a character I'm trying to write.

I think in the end it's because bumbling villains (or jerks at least) tend to be most ripe with pathos. They have such a high range of emotions (from their smug assurance of their success, to their complete deflation from their humiliating loss) and enthasis is put into much of them for comedic effect that it makes them such pitiable characters. It's not just a case of being nice or on the good guys side, you have to convey sympathetic emotions. Animators and writers tend to put less depth and detail onto nicer heroic characters, and tend to use cheaper methods of enflicting 'fake' pathos, as described here:

http://johnkstuff.blogspot.co.uk/2007/04/funny-pathos-vs-cheap-trick-pathos.html

"I have felt more sorrow for Daffy Duck losing at the end of "Duck,Rabbit,Duck" or Ralph Cramden missing the first question on "The $99,000 Answer" then Bambi's mother getting shot or Mufasa being killed. I can't feel sorry for characters who don't have a single shred of personality."

I think this is why I find comic relief characters to be so unfairly undermined by many as having no potential in depth, if anything they are the most versatile and capable of conveying it than ones you are supposed to take seriously.

I don't really feel as much for Friendship Is Magic villains, since it's a rare case they put such greater enthasis of pathos and personality onto the heroes (even if largely from them doing jerkish buffoonish stuff themselves). Trixie may be an exception, albeit mostly in her second episode when they decided they wanted her to be more likeable (the development does make some of her previous role more endearing in hindsight however, I guess I never bothered to notice it because she was so one note in her role in Boast Busters).

This may be why Bugs is somehow a million times more rootable in his Butt-Monkey roles, despite usually throwing a high order Jerkass Ball. Looney Tunes blatantly knew how to make oblivious losers sympathetic.

edited 10th Feb '13 6:03:45 PM by Psi001

Yeah you're probably right about all that

_{Pssst, it's spelled "emphasis". Unless you meant "entasis", which has to do with the curves of columns...}

Okay Mufasa had no personality? I disagree with that.

Maybe it's not the accurate example, but I think works giving the basic point. Villains have a better tendancy to work on personality and expressions for pathos, which are more subtle, but ultimately far more important. Heroes tend to be harder to bring out such traits, usually because they are the goody goody 'winners' of the battle, and thus they use cheaper more blatant ploys for sympathy like killing their parents or having them in a cliche super somber backdrop, which is less working on personality and more on the scenario they are placed in.

This is likely why Jerkass Woobies are often popular.

edited 11th Feb '13 5:07:32 AM by Psi001

As much as I hate to say this... John K. is right. Mufasa has no character. He is merely an archetypal "Great dad and king" so that we feel sad when he dies. But that's mostly because the guy he's based on was already dead when he was introduced.

Of course, don't you know anything about ALCHEMY?!- Twin clones of Ivan the Great

Starscream.

Kind of spoiler-y for those who have an inclination for playing Portal 2 but haven't yet.

Wheatley. Maybe it's being voiced by the insanely charming Stephen Merchant and the overall adorkablility of his character...but I was still greatly attached to him after Chapter 5. He remains one of my overall favorite video game characters, even if he tried to kill Chell.

Also, Loki. Just like pretty much everyone else.

edited 11th Feb '13 2:19:00 PM by QuarterDollar