Summon an everyman hero.........why?

It seems that Summon Everyman Hero is a fairly popular trope in fantasy works, especially in literature.

I keep wondering; why an everyman? Why not someone with training, like a Navy SEAL, S.A.S., French Foreign Legion, Spetsnaz, CIA agent, or something?

Is it because of the purpose of Wish-Fulfillment?

Easy, because escapism

Not everyone is a soldier/special agent but Everyone is an everyman therefore everyone can imagine themselves as being That special hero (The Chosen One), being in his/her shoes.

Ever wondered why Agent Coulson is so popular?. He is a highly trained agent but unlike black widow he is fairly average in every other way. That's what makes people like him. He is awesome but he is also someone you could be (unlike let's say James Bond).

Many people would like to be that everyman that is special all along

edited 5th Oct '12 10:04:48 AM by FallenLegend

That kind of people would probably assume they have gone crazy.

Another one is Harry Potter. In the first half of the first book he doesn't have a personality at all. But that's because people are connecting with him (imagining themselves as him).

He is an average kid, that feels alone and is suffering (many people could identify with that).But he discovers not only that he is not alone but that he is The Chosen One, rich and with superpowers (many people would like that).

Why? Becuase the kids (target audience) could dream being like him.Many waited for their hogwarts letter in Real Life. If it happened to Harry, why not them?.

If the book had started from the point of view of an old Dumbledore it wouldn't have had the same effect.

edited 5th Oct '12 10:37:06 AM by FallenLegend

The way I see it, the everyman can (and often does) level up a fair bit before story's end. So it's not as if they're 100% helpless all the time. And even if they don't have earth-shattering powers or extreme training or natural skills, they might have something that makes them worth choosing. Maybe he/she's a quick thinker and resourceful, or maybe The Power of Love is all the everyman needs.

Alternatively, maybe it's the lack of power that makes them amazing. Fallen Legend has the right idea — Coulson is way out of his element, but that doesn't stop him from lending a hand in whatever way he can. Plus he's downright charming, so...yeah, there's that.

I don't know who Agent Coulson is and I am not that interested in knowing anyway.

I know the escapist influence; that is why I wondered if it is because of the Wish-Fulfillment element.

The problems are,

First, for the readers' eyes, yes, maybe people without training is more special. However, in the perspective of whoever summons, and NEEDS, a hero, why would THEY choose an everyman, rather than a more qualified person?

Secondly, in many action and speculative works, Die Hard, Halo, Modern Warfare, et cetera, the main characters are decidedly not everymen, but that absolutely never stops the audiences from engaging themselves, despite not being a police officer, a space marine, or an elite military force.

Lastly, even the most hardened professionals are flawed. They make mistakes. They have plenty of room for improvement. Just ask a militaryman. They have all the weaknesses that everyman have, only to much less degree.

edited 5th Oct '12 11:56:26 AM by dRoy

To be fair, it's not like Master Chief or the MW protagonists are any better characters than your average Everyman. In fact, I'd say they're worse characters due to their lack of personality and their only endearing traits being "badassery". Using those characters as comparisons, I can see why a writer would prefer to use an Everyman hero

Better examples you could have used are Doctor Who, Sonic The Hedgehog, and Devil May Cry. The characters in these works also never fail to engage the audience, and unlike the examples you used, have interesting and/or entertaining character traits that make them likable and endearing to the audience despite their uniqueness.

The points still stands that there isn't a reasonable in-universe explanation why an everyman would be chosen.

edited 5th Oct '12 12:45:00 PM by dRoy

Only children can travel through the magic closets.

Not an avenger's fan uh?, Shame on you.

Good luck with finding an answer that " satisfies you".But in my mind it's pretty obvious.

Depends on the story you know Suspension Of Desbelief...

Every is the Chosen One because he is pure of heart.

edited 5th Oct '12 12:58:41 PM by FallenLegend

If it is "Everyman for the everyman reader", then I already know that.

I just don't find that to be a good reason.

I disagree, if an author justifies it well there can be a good reason.

Suspension Of Desbelief again...

It isn't any less believable than a magical dragon. The problem is that you don't think it is believable but what you find unrealistic/inlilkely others don't.

You don'tthink there is a "good reason" but many do :). What is a "good reason" is in the eyes of the reader.

Harry Potter did an exelent job for instance. Imo a great example of a "good reason". Good luck finding a reason that satisfies you.But in my opinion the trope can be believable because as you said everyone is like an everyman.

edited 5th Oct '12 1:16:07 PM by FallenLegend

Honestly, Harry Potter was among my least favorite characters in his series, primarily due to his extreme passivity making it harder to empathize with him then might have otherwise been the case.

However, I believe that he's also pretty much irrelevant to the actual question, which is specifically about why Summon Everyman Hero would make sense in-universe, not everymen in general.

I haven't watched Die Hard, but I've seen it used in multiple writing craft analyses, and from what I see, the protagonist happened to be in the building when things went down, and he was the one willing to take the steps needed to save the day.

So it's probably that element of the ordinary doing the extraordinary.

Funny enough, I've considered the subject of the everyman for the last couple of days, and how to define it, and whatever it's a bad thing in the first place or not.

I agree. I don't see why we should hold up Harry as an example of good character-writing.

edited 5th Oct '12 2:47:31 PM by DoktorvonEurotrash

Harry Potter is supposed to be a good example? I loathe him. Also is he even an everyman? Anyway, that is not really relevant.

@Chihuahua - According to Wikipedia, at the first movie, he has been working at NYPD for 11 years. I think that disqualifies him from being an everyman.

edited 5th Oct '12 2:50:34 PM by dRoy

If we throw out the series' massive popularity as a plus (since we generally consider Twilight as a flawed piece of literature), one of the things I can think up from the top of my head is the fact that Harry Potter's daring, that he's a reluctant leader, yet he upholds the task.

Yes, his personality might pale in comparison to other characters, and he could've been more memorable without ruining the series, but the fact that he was a hero makes him compelling beyond the escapism factor.

Oh, and the fact that Mrs. Weasley can't comb his hair down. I still remember that particular quirk.

I disagree. Read him on his first book and before he gets his letter to howards he is a texbook everyman.

The glasses and the "average" name Harry should give you a clue

What is irrelevant is wheter you like harry or not.

I never said he was" an example of good writting"( wich is up to personal tastes anyway) I said he was a good example of an " everyman is apeciall all along" type

But if you guys dislike him think of Spider Man

edited 5th Oct '12 3:48:49 PM by FallenLegend

Off the top of my head, the most common reasons I can think of for justifying SEH are;

• Humans Are Special - Thus any human will do.
• Children Are Innocent - Thus they need a child.
• They're The Chosen One, thus how "competant" they are is a moot point.
• Chance - The caller needs someone, anyone, and they can't be picky.

Again, the question is about Summon Everyman Hero. Summon. That doesn't happen in Harry Potter at all; his original Call to Adventure is actually part of an essentially routine process that includes 39 or so other people, and he's being "summoned" for nothing more then an education. Most of the actual main-plot-related stuff that happens to him has nothing to do with being an everyman - it's the result of his anything-but-average backstory, his actual talents (e.g. Quidditch), or pure luck/accident. So he really shouldn't have anything to do with the question at all.

I merely mentioned that I disliked him because I think it's a good example of how an everyman can wind up being less sympathetic than a more active character in some situations. But regardless of what you think about that, he's still not the kind of everyman the OP is asking about.

@Fallen Legend - Like nrj said,

First, his backstory is anything but everyman.

Second, it's not relevant to this discussion.

@Bisected 8 -

• If any human will do, then why not a human who have more chance of getting things done?
• Kids Are Cruel. Not to mention incompetent.
• Why is an everyman "Chosen" at the first place instead of someone more competent?
• It seems like they had enough time to go around spend at least weeks and months (which is another nonsense; it really should be at least few years) training the everyman. I think they can spare at least few days in choosing the right one.

edited 5th Oct '12 4:31:35 PM by dRoy

@Droy I joined this discussion to help you not to "debate" or be " right".Inmy opinion you are being too rude and more concerned on the being "right" so I can only wish you the best. I think others can help you much better than I

@Njrlx I am in class (thetefore busy) and I don't want to derail this discussion anymore. Expect a refutation via private message.

edited 5th Oct '12 5:18:15 PM by FallenLegend

1. You're assuming that a) They can make that distinction (as far as fantasyland's concerned, a human may well be a human), b) There is a distinction (the whole point of Humans Are Special is that all humans have whatever it is which makes us special) and c) They care (after all, they most likely have plenty of their own people who can do the sorts of things a trained policeman or soldier can; they need a human, dammit!).
2. Again, you're assuming that that trope's in effect; just because Kids Are Cruel in that story, doesn't mean they are in other ones, and also again; you're assuming that anything other than the relevant trait (innocence) matters.
3. Because they're The Chosen One. Whatever entity that chose them says so.
4. Again, you're assuming; who says they are planning to train them?

Maybe it would help if you described the specific Summon Everyman Hero scenario you have in mind?

The Chief has a personality. He may not be a Hot-Blooded Kamina or smooth talking James Bond but he has a distinct personality. Stoic, leadership oriented (in the military the best leaders lead by example, Chief does an exemplary job of that), cool under pressure but not so cool as to be emotionless (he is however a tad snarky), and when push comes to shove has the ability to keep pushing forward when everyone else is running away.

I mean yeah Pvt. James Ramirez is a helmet, a gun and a pair of boots but Chief is actually a character with a life inside his universe.

@Bisected 8

1. I see that a serial killer would serve the summoners perfectly, by the virtue of being a human, then.

2. The point I was making is that children, at least human children (because you insist on emphasizing humans), are not innocent.

3. Why doesn't that entity choose a more competent one? Does that "entity" make only right choices?

4. As far as my experience goes, almost all summoned heroes go through at least some training, as implausibly short as they are.

The Doctor I undersatnd. I admit that Soap, Jackson, Ramirez, Price, et cetera are bad examples too. But Sonic and Dante? As if they are more complex/interesting than Master Chief.

edited 5th Oct '12 6:06:01 PM by dRoy