Welcome to the Content Violations Discussion forum, where we discuss whether a work violates The Content Policy.
Remember that the forum rules apply here
, plus the following:
- You don't PM moderators about stuff pertaining to the policies, except for thread reasons;
- We tolerate links to scanlation sites unlike in the rest of the site due to its purpose, although it's preferred to remove them when they have done their jobs;
- The forum is not a soapbox for your own views on the policy or on morality. Please leave them at the door.
Violations of these rules can result in a ban from the subforum, or from the entire forum.
Otherwise:
Also, keep in mind that there are works that we don't want flagged without a really good reason as they are not likely in violation of policy:
- Is a film rated below "R" for U.S. distribution.
- Is a show that can be aired on prime time television.
- Is a video game that is rated below "M" by the ESRB.
- Is a written work that is sold in major bookstores without an "adult" or "mature" label.
- Is an anime/manga/etc. that is approved for U.S. import as a non-adult work.
- Is read/shown/taught in high school or below.
- Is in another format and meets equivalent criteria.
What we're looking for:
- Pure porn, or porn with an Excuse Plot only,
- Anything that has explicit underage sex,
- Implied sex of preteens or younger, and
- Fanservice intended to cater to pedophiles (lolicon and shotacon fanservice can count).
A couple of guidelines so the procedure can move smoothly:
- Do not list whole indexes or works just because they are on a certain index or have lolicon, H-Game or shotacon on their trope list.
- Do not list works you know nothing about without at least reading the trope page.
- Do not list works that you know are G-rated but you find creepy.
- If it's paedophile-pandering approximately how old are the characters involved? What happens? Is it graphic? Is it merely implied?
- List what objectionable content there is, and how much of the work consists of that.
- If it's entirely sex, say so. People have different ideas of what porn is. We all have the same idea of what a work being entirely sex scenes is.
- If you're not sure about a work, say so, or ask someone who does know that work. But don't make blanket accusations. Post here: "I don't know about this work, but the page says X".
- Google and Wikipedia are your friendsnote . Do a little digging on works you aren't sure about.
Also, in the case of H Games, there is this questioning to fill up:
- When are the sex scenes located?
- Are they spread out over the game?
- How much gameplay is there between sex scenes?
- Are they only at the endings?
- How hard do you have to work to get an ending?
- Are they in every ending? Every good ending?
- Are the sex scenes optional via a choice in the menu?
- Would the story make sense without them with minimal or no rewriting?
- Are the scenes made up of stills, or are they animated?
- How explicit are the sex scenes?
- This isn't a headcount. Your opinion is only considered if it explains in at least some detail how you came to the conclusion that the work is/isn't porn/paedopandering.
- When a moderator determines that the discussion has yielded a consensus, they can enact its conclusion/ask a moderator to enact the conclusion.
- The discussion is only about whether the work qualifies as porn or as paedopandering. We don't assess anything else in this process.
.
Q: Why is this happening?
A: Concerning the porn, it tends to attract creepy edits that have brought us into issues with the adservers while not significantly contributing to our core purpose - tropology. Concerning paedophilia-pandering, such works are just plain creepy to have pages about.
Q: What can I do to help clean the site?
A: You can flag content as unsuitable using the flag tool, which is located in the Tools menu to the right of each article, keeping the criteria in mind. Also, you can help enforce No Lewdness, No Prudishness across the wiki, possibly though cleaning pages listed in this Long Term Projects thread.
Q. This episodic work isn't finished yet. Shouldn't we wait for the ending before discussing it?
A. No. If released instalments may violate the content policy, we want to take action as soon as that's established — we don't need to wait for the ending. We can always revisit a decision to cut or keep once the work is over, but that point might still be years or decades away.
Q: This work is not actually/primarily pornographic. Why was it cut?
A: This could be for a number of different reasons. If the work was deemed to be paedopandering, for example, it will be cut whether or not it's actually sexually explicit. Being pro-paedophilia or pandering to paedophiles is bad enough, even if the work is nominally anti-paedophilia. Of course, it's possible that there was a mistake and then you should appeal it - please check the reasons first, however.
Q: This work is being/has been cut, but it is not a violation of the Content Policy. How do I make an appeal?
A: Flag the work page using the button in the sidebar and state your reasons for restoration.
Q: This work is pretty much pure porn, but it's really good porn. Can an exception be made?
A: Nope, sorry. If it's mainly porn, it goes.
Q: Why would you cut this? In [culture x], it is totally acceptable.
A: The vast majority of our readers come from the Americas or Western Europe, so we will be adhering to what could broadly be termed "Western" standards. This means we will not be permitting works which sexualize 12 year olds, and nor will we be demanding that every picture of a woman on the site must wear a burqa.
Q: How can you possibly claim to know authorial intent? (Roland Barthes is my co-pilot.)
A: It is not important what the authorial intent was, only the outcome.
Q: Wikipedia have articles on all kinds of awful stuff. Why can't we do the same?
A: Wikipedia is a strictly academic site. They have to cite sources and a "no censorship rule". They also do not aim to be Family Friendly, and are not reliant upon third party ads for funding. Conversely, one of our stated aims is to celebrate fiction, and our generally light, non-negative tone is a reflection of this, which has led to much more gushing about inappropiate content.
Q: So should I take every article here as an endorsement of whatever it describes?
A: No, of course not. We have pages on Greedy Jew, Adolf Hitler and Mein Kampf after all. However, if we choose to focus our attention on schoolgirls' thighs or porn, it does reflect very poorly on us. Fan Fic Recommendations are a slightly different issue. If a work is recommended there, this should be taken as an endorsement by the troper who wrote it.
Q: Are we allowed to make forum threads about works processed by the Content Violation Discussions forum?
A: If it was voted "clean and keep", a forum thread is relatively safe as long as it is restricted to talking about the clean parts. Anything with a stronger judgement is discouraged on the forums.
Q: Where can I find decisions regarding a work?
A: They are linked from the discussion page. Sometimes the old list of content reviews or the thread list in this forum can help as well.
Q: I still have some questions/concerns.
A: We will be happy to answer them. There is a thread for this.
- Guro: Violence played for titillation. (contrast Gorn)
- 5P or P5: The panel that administered the policy prior to the review system being overhauled in 2022. See 5P.
- P(a)edoshit: Older term for "P(a)edopandering", deprecated for being inflammatory.
- Porn: A work mostly concerned with sexual arousal. Having NSFW or explicit scenes doesn't automatically make a work porn — it's when showcasing explicit scenes is the entire point of the work.
Also, questions about the policy can be asked here. They will be added to this thread's FAQ section once answered.
Edited by Mrph1 on May 5th 2024 at 6:00:30 PM
Never, ever censor by using asterisks. That's considered vandalism here.
There isn't an official rule against using "fuck," but, if you can rewrite an example so that it's as clear, concise, and witty without the word (and it isn't on a page where swearing is necessary, for example Cluster F-Bomb), be our guest. I've done that myself with various swear words when I felt they were unnecessary. But Symbol Swearing is absolutely not the right way to go about it.
edited 21st Nov '16 3:57:32 PM by Ramidel
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
I assume actual cases of Symbol Swearing within the example and other forms of in-text/dialogue censoring of what is otherwise obvious swearing are exceptions.
edited 21st Nov '16 4:05:40 PM by MarqFJA
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Grr... <3
Never touch quotes. This is true no matter how the swears are formatted.
The no lewdishness no prudishness means strong swears should be avoided except on pages or in contexts that require them.
Strong language has never been a concern here. As far as general editing goes I believe it's frowned on but not banned.
No longer a forum herald
I'm not entirely sure how strong language relates to the subject of this thread, since that's not technically part of the content policy. This is more an issue for Wiki Talk, so I'd think we'd be better of taking this line of discussion to a thread there.
Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
Hi
Yeah, a discussion about harsh language would be better suited for a different thread.
Apparition in the Woods
In response to The Kaizerreich's assertions in the P5 nomination thread, I would like to clarify some things based on my understanding of the system and the rules:
- Gory violence is not treated in the same way as sexual context. Perhaps this is an unfortunate double standard—I personally find gratuitous sadistic violence far more offensive than gratuitous sex in many respects—but these are the rules and there's a reason that they're in place.
- "Artistic merit" is a more complicated matter than you make it out to be. For instance, a work may be exceptional in many regards, but if it is saturated with and overall focused around explicit sexual content, it must go. Urotsukidouji is a fascinatingly bizarre work of fiction, but it's basically wall-to-wall crazy tentacle sex, and consequently, it really shouldn't be here. There are rare apparent exceptions, but when you look at them more closely, they're not exceptions at all. Oglaf has a lot of explicit sexual humour, but it's the humour that's the point of the comic rather than the sex, and the strip often goes for long stretches without anything particularly sexual happening at all.
- Nudity is not inherently sexualised or sexualising. Nudity can be comical, alarming, or just a fact of a situation. Things like perspective in the form of camera angles and descriptions, as well as plot context and character behaviour, are important to understanding most any scene, and whether or not a character's nudity can be safely understood as intentionally sexual are no exception. Should that character be a child or extremely childlike, the stakes obviously go up here, but nobody's going to be putting black marks against My Neighbor Totoro for the family bath scene.
- Don't make assumptions about decisions. A work simply might not have come up yet.
EDIT: Sorry about the misspelling there.
edited 22nd Nov '16 4:43:34 PM by JHM
I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.
Lost in Space
A correction: we do consider sexualized or fetishized violence (gorn/guro) similarly to porn when it comes to evaluating works. The Human Centipede, for example, would not pass our content policy.
edited 22nd Nov '16 4:47:53 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Ah, actually, THC was voted to keep.
No longer a forum herald
Also, if Fighteer's assertion were true, Electric Retard would have been chainsawed so hard they'd feel it on Mars. And yet...
Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
Grr... <3
I think the human centipede has reached historical significance, which changes the approach slightly.
Lost in Space
Oh, well ... I suppose I should look at what I'm talking about first so I don't make an ass of myself. Still, it strikes me as rather odd that we'd pass THC in any context, historical notoriety or not. But not every fetish violence property can claim that protection.
edited 22nd Nov '16 7:10:49 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
"Also, if Fighteer's assertion were true, Electric Retard would have been chainsawed so hard they'd feel it on Mars. And yet... "
Was that one even under review?
No longer a forum herald
Ah, alright.
Sorcerer in training
The whole point why we need a humannote panel -this things really are case-by-case basis. Careful evaluation and screening are things no cleverly-created computer program can do, so without a JARVIS, or at least a [[ https://www.goodreads.com/series/185650-expeditionary-force Skippy]], we need people, with copious supplies of brain bleach and alcohol, to review this stuff.
Apparition in the Woods
Aye.
Was A Serbian Film passed? I thought it was, barely, but I can't recall. Anyway, what I meant by sexualised violence was not violence for the purpose of sexual titillation, but violence with a sexual slant. Rape and sexually-charged torture and murder are not damning in and of themselves—A Game Of Thrones would be right out as soon as Ramsay Bolton appears were this the case; he is quite a disgusting man—but rather in how they are presented within the narrative.
I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.
It was stubbed by the 5P, yes. That said, since we now are much stricter on tropeless stubs, I've reflagged it to get a new practice-compliant conclusion.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Apparition in the Woods
In all fairness, the film is a culture-specific critique as much as it is a shock piece. I mean, how does one respond to the long shadow of the Bosnian War and international sex trafficking, exactly? Or in cinema, to the Black Wave? I'd cut it some slack myself, but not much...
I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.
Crazyrabbits
It's a horrid, vile little piece of media. I have no problems with it being left off this wiki.
Kukuku
A Serbian Film may indeed be horrid/vile, but it's not necessarily pedo-pandering or porn despite its extremely disturbing content. The majority of the graphic sexual content presented is between adults and is meant to horrify, not titillate. The baby rape is the most troubling part for the 5P, but most versions cut that scene.
I imagine these aspects are why it was chosen to be kept as a stub as a sort of compromise.
edited 28th Nov '16 5:40:55 AM by Assassin-sensei
"A buddy is a buddy no matter how nutty."
It can be boiled down to this. Does the film (or whatever media is in question) have any significance in culture, or does it exist merely for people to jack off?
Now I know this doesn't narrow it down enough - I can't think of the titles off hand but that x-rated animated movie with the cat, and...Showgirls, I think it was? Were created not for porn but to create a grand "fuck you" to the Hollywood censors and cabal, but without that direct statement there is no context within them to suggest that.
A Serbian Film, as fucked up to high heaven as it is, was designed to basically put the horrors of a real war on the table, grab the viewer by the hair and slam their face into it; because the media and history ignored it. It's why U.S. troops took German citizens into the concentration camps without cleaning them up. To rock the viewer to their core.
edited 29th Nov '16 7:28:44 PM by Axslayer33
Sorcerer in training
@Axslayer: Administrivia.Text Formatting Rules will help with the formatting you're trying. 
Thanks. Wrote that half awake so I forgot the format, and my phone wouldn't open the markup help.
Motherfucker and fuck have different grammatical roles.
These words should only really be appearing in quotes, right now, so I would advise against changing any cases that you find.