So here are the issues in a nutshell:
edited 24th Jul '12 1:27:34 AM by AceOfSevens
Dragon WriterI think the core definition of the trope (and the essence of the name) is supposed to be that a show is no longer officially available/distributed in any form, and the only way to see it these days is via fans who recorded it onto VCR/DVD themselves. BTW, #2 would be the inversion of #1.
edited 24th Jul '12 8:54:08 AM by Stratadrake
Pika is the bombchu!I think we have three major categories:
No Export for you is the 1st. The second and third can be lumped into this.
It appears there is disagreement over whether we should list stuff which is available, but not in the version fans want. I think we should list it, but soft-split.
Dragon WriterStuff that is currently available just "not in fan-preferred version" is Not an Example and should get cut with an axe.
The name pretty much suggests that it's any situation where people regularly watch old recordings of a show. Maybe it should become a supertrope of No Export for You, along with other newly-split-out tropes for the other types.
ReymmăWe could make a soft split, with a seperate category where it only applies to certain versions, such as AKIRA's old dub. But only if there are enough examples. I don't think it's a problem to include them, they are simply a different, more minor case of the same phenomenon. Unless we're defining this trope as only applying to where legal issues are preventing or not making it worth releasing the product. In that case we may have to pick out other examples and launch a supertrope. This trope does not apply to when it is not available in certain countries, I believe the export tropes cover that.
I just discovered another issue: There seems to be a lot of overlap between this and Missing Episode. We could merge these, but I think we'd be better to add a note to Missing Episode that works which exist, but aren't publically available go under Keep Circulating the Tapes and a note to Keep Circulating the Tapes that if something isn't available because there are no known copies, it goes under Missing Episode. (Which I think needs a rename to somethign less TV-centric.)
No, the other one.I think shows that are only available in one country should only count if the language is different, so that you wouldn't understand it. A US <> UK thing should be cut, as those are available, just not easily so. Even then I'm still leaning towards cutting them anyway.
Dragon Writer^ Shows that are only available/distributed in one country already fall under No Export for You.
No, the other one.That's why I'm leaning towards cutting (or moving, if applicable). No need to duplicate the same thing for two tropes.
You'd have to make a good case that they're really the same trope. To me, Keep Circulating the Tapes would only cover the "shown during the initial run, but never rebroadcast" flavor of Missing Episode.
even older skoolThere is a sort of hybrid case to consider: a work produced in region A and distributed in both region A and region B, which is then discontinued in region B but not in region A. It's not really a No Export for You because it was exported at one time. And in region B it does fit the strict definition of Keep Circulating the Tapes because it's no longer being legitimately distributed there. I contend that such an example is valid for this page on the grounds that from the perspective of a distribution trope, the different releases of the work in question in various regions constitute distinct "works", and the discontinuation of any one of them is sufficient for the definition here.
Do you have any actual examples? The description for No Export for You doesn't seem well-suited to calling the current bad examples from Keep Circulating the Tapes inversions. We'd either need to rewrite the description a bit or create a new trope for works which are available, but not in their home territory.
No, the other one.If it's available in another region, can't you just import it from there, with no need to "circulate the tapes"?
Two Christmas wormsNo. Someone needs to export it. And it doesn't always happen.
Pika is the bombchu!It does seem like we can split the examples into two major groups:
In response to Another Duck's argument that examples should be cut because they're easily available in another country in the same language, this is frustrated in many cases by region-locking. But examples of this would fall under No Export for You, anyway.
edited 10th Sep '12 3:06:55 PM by Prfnoff
Pika is the bombchu!Split the page into subpages so that differences in releases can be addressed? U.S.A./Canada, Latin America, Europe/Australia, Asia, etc.
Here's potential comprehensive plan for everything that's been brought up: Make a note on Keep Circulating the Tapes that this trope is for works that theoretically could be released but never were on modern formats (with a listing of the common reasons this happens) or had a small run that's long out of print, making them rare commodities. If they are available, just not in all the regions you would expect, that's No Export for You. If they aren't available because they no longer exist as far as we know, that's Missing Episode. Rename Missing Episode to something less format-specific. Note that this trope is only for works not known to exist anymore. If they exist, but aren't being released for whatever reason, that goes under Keep Circulating the Tapes. Add a section for works that were thought lost, then turned up, roughly equivalent to the section for stuff that eventually got published in Keep Circulating the Tapes. For both, soft-split works which are available, but not in the form people wanted. For No Export for You, split by region as well as medium with a subsection for inversion where a work is available, but not in its home territory. If only a butchered version gets exported, that falls under Macekre or a couple other export tropes and doesn't go here.
Also, add a note to Keep Circulating the Tapes to not duplicate the examples from Home Version Soundtrack Replacement and perhaps create an availability index for all of these.
Note that this trope is only for works not known to exist anymore. If they exist, but aren't being released for whatever reason, that goes under Keep Circulating the Tapes.What about single episodes of larger shows that have gotten a public release that aren't included in reruns or DV Ds for some reason? I'm conflicted, because I used Missing Episode for those in my Super Friends description (even applying it to entire seasons), but Keep Circulating the Tapes seems more relevant to the MST3K examples that resemble that...
That's part of the reason Missing Episode should be renamed. In film studies, the term is Lost Film, but that's medium-specific. Lost Work might be good for a title.
Actually, to my understanding, Missing Episode is about installments of a series being unavailable for some reason. As an example series:
edited 17th Sep '12 6:32:02 PM by DonaldthePotholer
Total posts: 42
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