Marvel's Avengers Assemble

Eh, he seems fine, though I don't see him be better than EMH Zemo for now. I guess we'll see.

Titan mooks? No one told me that Batman Arkham Asylum is getting a cartoon!

...Was I the only one thinking it?

Shocking.

Well at least it's Helmut Zemo, which is a plus in my book. Maybe this season won't be bad. So again, caustious about this show

edited 26th Mar '16 4:47:53 PM by BigK1337

Just curious, why do you consider this a plus?

Helmut Zemo is a much more impactful and well developed character. Heinrich was only ever around for about a year or so before being Killed Off for Real.

I still love that his secret weapon was glue.

That might not be a factor here.

I thought today's episode was pretty strong. I liked Zemo's introduction.

Saw it as well. It was fine. I kinda like Antman making a cameo on the photo at the end; he might have been an Avenger only temporary but they remember him.

Just watch the episode and holy shit its Die Hard. Halfway through the episode, it not only became an adaption to the famous Under Siege story (or rather a remake to that EMH episode) but it comes off as a super hero version of Die Hard with the bare footed smart mouth hero (Hawkeye) trapped in a tower by a group of criminals (Masters of Evil) that are led by a German Mastermind (Baron Zemo).

Positives I give this episode (besides Die Hard) is the portrayal of the Masters of Evil. Continuing from their characterization in the first episode, the team is portrayed as a minor threat fitting considering the line-up for this team. And then Helmut Zemo shows up to lead the team; now all of the sudden they are now taking down heavy hitters like Hulk and Thor, even Thor notes how dangerous the team became.

Another positive which I thought wouldn't happen is that the episode hints at the reform story that is done in Thunderbolts. Its pretty subtle, but its pretty clear that it will happen later on given Hawkeye's interaction with Screaming Mimi.

Saw it as well. It was okay, and yes, now I do believe we have a chance to see the Thunderbolts' redemption. I do have two complains however, one being a slight nitpicking:

1) Zemo saying "Masters of EEEEVIL" with his accent sounds absolutely ridiculous. Granted, the name sounded cheesy to begin with, but this add an extra-bit^^'

2) I find it kinda insulting that they made the Masters of Evil a bunch of loser villains who can't get anything done without Zemo to lead them. I mean, correct me if I am wrong (I never really read the comics about them), but aren't they supposed to be a major threat of their own? Even if they aren't, I find it kinda silly that Beetle, after being portrayed as a ultra-badass Professional Killer who could give trouble to Spidey's entire team in Ultimate Spider-Man, is now presented as a nobody.

Still, fine episode overall, and I do like that it builds up to the Thunderbolt arc with them stealing a disguise device. Overall, I am willing to give this season a chance, if just because I look forward to see an adaptation of one of my favourite storylines.

edited 4th Apr '16 12:23:11 PM by Theokal3

1) Totally agree.

2) I guess it's just me who didn't mind their portrayal as losers. Honestly I have always seen Helmut Zemo's line-up as a group of C-Listers who manage to become a legitimate threat after given proper leadership. For example the Wrecking Crew managing to beat Hercules to near death; the fucking Wrecking Crew, the jobber team of the Marvel Universe and Thor, nearly killed Hercules, Thor's Greek equivalent.

Though you do have a point on certain members being portrayed as such. If anything the only competent members of the team besides Zemo should have been Beetle and Moonstone. Their portrayals are the only ones that bother me since the former is considered a legitimate SHIELD threat in this universe and the latter have always been a dangerous villain who can take on the Hulk by herself.

edited 7th Apr '16 1:22:41 PM by BigK1337

After checking, it turns out at least some of them were c-listers in the comic, so I guess this part was accurate to it after all. Still bothers me regarding this incarnation of the Beetle, though.

edited 7th Apr '16 2:16:33 PM by Theokal3

Did they fail their spot check this badly in the comics as well?

Nope. In fact the Avengers failing to see the team as the Masters of Evil instead of a completely new super hero team is more justifiable.

For starters, the line up for the Mo E they fought was bigger than the initial Thunderbolts line up. The fact they used the least recognizable members with power set that are commonly found in many other heroes also helps.

Second, going back to the common powers point all of the Thunderbolts have powers similar to other Marvel heroes. Mach 4 uses an armor like Iron Man and War Machine as well as many other armor heroes and villains, Atlas can change his size like many Pym based heroes, Techno is a machine savy hero no different from Forge of the X-Men, and Meteorite's powers are cosmic based like Quesar, Captain Marvel, Ms. Marvel, etc. It is pretty hard to guess they are the Masters of Evil at first glance given how common their powers are to other heroes.

The only character who recognize one of the members as a villain was the Hulk in the team's first appearance (he fought Moonstone before, and recognizes her in the team). But that didn't matter seeing how Hulk in the comics doesn't give a shit for any other heroes well being at the time and just want to smash anybody who fucks with him.

That's kinda the problem with introducing the Masters of Evil only two or three episodes before starting the Thunderbolts story arc. If they were a long-date enemy who had different line-up, like they were in EMH for example, it would make more sense for the Avengers to not realize it was them.

It's worth remembering in the comics the Thunderbolts debuted while most Avengers and the Fantastic Four were assumed dead and stranded in the Heroes Reborn universe, and they were outed almost as soon as the heroes returned.

Which is part of the reason why I am skeptical about this show doing the team any justice. If the Masters of Evil debuted as early as Season 2 (or at least have already been established as a past Avengers foe like Ultron) then the whole Thunderbolts story arc would have been more believable in its story and not be a case of the Idiot Ball on the Avengers part. Or at least hold off the story arc for a couple more episodes instead of right after the Under Siege story.

It doesn't really feel like this show does that much planning ahead.

Yeah, I noticed. In all fairness, they HAVE started doing a better job lastly, but they still have a loooooong way to go.

Well, I'm surprised.

I had no idea Fixer was a white guy. Knowing him only from few pictures, Marvel Avengers Alliance, and Iron Man Armored Adventures, I could swear he was black.

I'm actually surprised that they didn't went for bold goatee look. It's much cooler and design they're using reminds me of someone too much. General Zod, perhaps? In twist, his old comic design looked too much like Forge on the other hand.

Okay, finally got to see that episode. And the first half of the episode pissed me.

This is Ultimate Spider-Man's episode Back in Black all over again. They are ONCE AGAIN using that damn "flashy new superheroes trying to replace the old ones and getting instantly more popular" cliché plot (which I hate with every fiber of my being), and they indeed have the main characters failing to see the blatant similarities (though to be fair it's not quite as bad as it was with Venom since the Masters of Evil at least changed their costumes). The fact they are doing it in the Marvel Universe makes it all the more nonsensical, since there are tons of different superhero teams in this universe who can cohabit together, so the idea of a new group replacing an old one (Legacy Character aside) seems absolutely ridiculous.

Oh, well, on the plus side, the designs were good, and it was nice to see Hammer be treated as a real threat for a change. Having the Thunderbolts' publicist be The Mole to Hammer was an unexpected twist, if not played up that much. I also liked the fact the two teams gradually learn to respect and like each other over the course of the episode.

Overall, the episode started really bad, but gets better later on. I'll wait to see how it comes out next. If the Thunderbolts' redemption is well-handled, I'm willing to forgive.

edited 13th Apr '16 3:50:27 AM by Theokal3

Share with you the sentiment on the first half but for different reason. To me, the Thunderbolts have always started out as the Sucksessor seeing how their identity and initial goals weren't in lines to that of the team before them (being members of Masters of Evil and pretending to be heroes to gain trust as part of their global takeover plan). The thing that makes them interesting among fans is how they grew out of said trope by betraying their leader and become a legitimate super hero team. So the whole new heroes taking the spotlight of the old does not annoy me in the slightest.

What I do have a problem with was the Avengers attitude over a new superhero team showing up. As you mention before, the Marvel Universe has plenty of super hero teams; including the ones that will never appeared on screen due to a certain fox (X-Men and Fantastic Four, though the latter did appeared on Hulk and the Agents of SMASH). So seeing the team look down on another team and say they are a fad is a pretty dick way of acting for "heroes" to act, even if the audience know for a fact the Thunderbolts aren't really good guys.

Thankfully the second half did tone down the Smug Super attitude (especially with Hulk and Atlas bonding over smashing) . . . well at least until Iron Man's final comment (fucking cunt). But still lets hope the next and final episode to this arc complete the whole reform story of the Thunderbolts (please for the love of God have most of the team switch side, please for the love of God have Jolt appear). If not, then overall this story arc will suck for me as it have a strong beginning but an unsatisfying conclusion.