Not Thriving (Alt Titles Crowner Sept 3): Chaos Emeralds

This trope is about Gotta Catch Them All items that are found in bonus stages. That's a very common trope in older video games, yet somehow this trope has managed only 25 wicks and 7 inbounds.

I think the problem is that Chaos Emeralds appear as a MacGuffin in pretty much all of the Sonic The Hedgehog games and comics, but in most of their appearances they're not an example of this trope, e.g. Sonic Generations or Sonic Unleashed. Especially in the newer games (and the comics), the trope namer is simply Not An Example of its own trope.

And, of course, no game other than Sonic uses the term "chaos emeralds" for their Bonus Stage MacGuffins. I think this needs a rename; the trope is much more common than its wick/inbound count suggests.

Alternatively, we could consider merging this into Gotta Catch Them All, because it is basically The Same But More (the only difference being that the items appear in bonus stages). I note that several of the examples on the page aren't actually in bonus stages, so they already belong on Gotta Catch Them All.

edited 23rd May '12 2:43:30 AM by Spark9

Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!

The name is terrible. I know about the Chaos Emeralds in Sonic, but I don't connect them to this trope.

However, I personally think the trope is distinct enough that it shouldn't be merged with Gotta Catch 'Em All.

If the only distinction is "hidden in bonus stages", that is videogame-specific by merit of what a Bonus Stage is. If we broadened the distinction to simply "hidden somewhere out of the ordinary", then we ... lose all distinction, by virtue of the fact that most Gotta Catch 'Em All Plot Coupons are hidden in secret places already.

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I'm inclined to cut - I don't think "hidden in bonus stages" is enough of a distinction, given that you generally have to get to extra, optional areas anyhow to get 100% Completion.

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.

I think this is a distinct trope, but I don't think it should be named after the Chaos Emeralds. Even in the original games they weren't always this trope. In some games they were just lying around in the levels.

I think having bonus stages reward you with the MacGuffins is definitely tropable, but Chaos Emeralds isn't a very good name for that trope. The stats here are low. I support a rename.

edited 23rd May '12 4:05:13 PM by troacctid

Rhymes with "Protracted."

I support a rename because even those familiar with the current trope namer might confuse this name with a different trope. This name makes me think of Mineral Macguffin or Green Rocks.

And furthermore, not all Sonic games confine chaos emerald collecting to special stages. Some of the game gear games have chaos emeralds hidden directly in the main levels themselves. Someone familiar with those games could have thought the trope was for "any item you collect over the course of the game," perhaps with the condition that it affects the ending and/or affects which levels are available.

See, this is why trope names should not revolve around specific examples of them. (Barring ones that are actually descriptive of the general concept, of course.)

edited 23rd May '12 6:32:36 PM by HiddenFacedMatt

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The very first Game Gear game did that. That game had bonus stages and the Chaos Emeralds were still just lying around in the normal stages.

I think a better name might help.

The Internet misuses, abuses, and overuses everything.

Do we have consensus to rename or do we need a crowner?

Well, I think that a multiple action crowner is required... there isn't enough to say whether people overall would prefer a merge to Gotta Catch 'Em All or simply a rename.

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.

I'm fine with a merge and cut. The Same But More Specific seems to apply here, and it seems to be pretty limited in scope. Gotta Catch 'Em All makes the bonus-stage requirement explicit, but that doesn't mean that there are really enough examples for this to be separate. Sometimes, some of the Plot Coupons that you need are hidden in bonus stages (like in Super Mario 64, for instance). Doesn't make the Power Stars into Chaos Emeralds. (Not to mention that in some Sonic games, the Chaos Emeralds aren't Chaos Emeralds as per the trope (see Sonic Adventure 2, where they're mandatory to collect). It's a poor name at best and too narrow to trope.

It's not too narrow. "Macguffins found in bonus stages" seems absolutely tropable to me.

Rhymes with "Protracted."

Can anyone think of any examples beyond what's already here? This seems like a distinct concept but it may be too rare. I do think we should try a rename first to see if it helps.

edited 24th May '12 7:22:37 PM by Fnu

Timed bonus games where you have to collect all items to get a bonus (other than the actual items) were a lot more common in older games.

Chip 'n Dale: Rescue Rangers had a short stage-end similar to this. That old NES game I forget the name of which is essentially an adventure Lunar Lander where you collect fuel and ship pieces also has one.

Several Zelda and Mario games have variants that aren't bonus levels, but either plot-required or mini-games.

edited 24th May '12 8:32:53 PM by Feather7603

The Internet misuses, abuses, and overuses everything.

"Goodies found in a bonus level" strikes me as redundant to the trope Bonus Level; the whole point of a bonus level is that there's goodies in there.

Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!

Exactly. Similarly, just how many cases of Gotta Catch 'Em All do not involve going into bonus/side stages? If it's not redundant, I need someone to show me how it isn't.

edited 25th May '12 5:14:38 AM by 32_Footsteps

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.

I have an idea to fix this as a trope: broaden it to any sort of collectible where every single one can be Lost Forever (perhaps simply by not allowing the player to backtrack), but some sort of bonus can be earned by collecting them all, though not necessary to beat the game. This would differentiate the trope not only from Gotta Catch 'Em All but from Collection Sidequest.

Even so, this trope does need a rename.

No. The point of a bonus level is that the level is accessible only through special means and not necessary to reach the ending. Hence "Bonus". A Bonus level can have nothing in it, depending on the games. It can be a minigame. It can be lots of things.

Also, Gotta Catch 'Em All goodies aren't necessarily found in bonus stages, such as the Chaos Emeralds in several Game Gear Sonic games. They're totally optional to collect, but they're just lying around in the normal stages. The first game to do this even had actual bonus stages, but they existed just so players could collect extra lives.

edited 25th May '12 10:47:06 AM by Fnu

I'm definitely in favor of a rename.

Pinball cleanup thread

Bump.

Pinball cleanup thread

Rename, but we need a crowner here. Merge - rather disinclined unless bonus stages aren't that different from normal ones.

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