Misused: But You Screw One Goat

I feel like Bestiality Is Perverted is sort of like Water Is Wet. I know they are sort of synonymous, but "depraved" has more connotations of "especially perverted" I think. I like Bestiality Is Depraved.

Me Too!. I was actually just about to write that post, but you're more of a ninja than I am.

Calling crowner.

Well, I didn't expect the winner to be that bland, considering the general reaction to subject matter.

edited 29th Jun '12 12:42:22 PM by Tambov333

We have a new name and consensus to rename here.

Did the page move, but wicks and the rest I don't have the time for.

Cleaned up some of the wicks. Wasn't sure on whether some of them were actually examples or not, but I did delete several I'm pretty sure weren't.

I've changed about a dozen or so wicks myself; I presume they should be changed to Bestiality Is Depraved if they refer to a character's bestiality either being used to show just how depraved they are (dramatic examples, usually referring to actual bestiality) or being played for laughs (comic examples, usually referring to rumours or misunderstandings), and all other examples should be either removed or changed, if appropriate, to Never Live It Down.

Ah wait, what is correct use and what isn't? Is that the way to do it? I did a few but I just renamed them. I didn't see in the description specifics.

This is "bestiality as a sign of perversion", according to the page. I don't think mere bestiality would constitute a trope.

May add a comment to this effect to the entry on TRS Wick Cleaning, since it was misuse as either mere reference to bestiality or something that actually falls under Never Live It Down that brought it here, if I understand this correctly.

EDIT: Done.

edited 28th Oct '12 3:59:04 PM by mlsmithca

Sure.

I don't understand the logic behind "bestiality alone is not a trope". Why not? "A guy has sex with an animal", how's that not a trope? It's hardly People Sit On Chairs. Not outside Wales, at least.

The idea seems to be (I think?) that it needs to be acknowledged in-universe as being depraved... but a lot of examples won't bother doing that, because it kinda goes without saying.

EDIT: After a quick look over the examples, the majority involve no explicit acknowledgement that bestiality is sick. It's just taken for granted.

edited 28th Oct '12 5:52:05 PM by johnnye

I agree with this. When bestiality in fiction is Played for Drama, it's usually (always?) intended as a sign of perversion. However, it's often Played for Laughs as the ultimate in bad taste comedy.

(I also don't like the current name, but it was chosen by democratic vote, so that's beside the point.)

I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with the name. I just don't think the definition should be restricted to cases where the depravity is openly acknowledged. The whole point of this trope is that bestiality is a byword for depravity, so most of the time it's going to be subtextual.

I can agree that most wicks don't explicitly point out the depravity... it's just assumed. Sometimes you can tell from context that it's considered perverted or funny in-universe, but sometimes that's not in focus.

Did the last 381 wicks, except for a couple locked pages and ghosts.

I don't understand the logic behind "bestiality alone is not a trope". Why not? "A guy has sex with an animal", how's that not a trope? It's hardly People Sit on Chairs. Not outside Wales, at least.

A thing does not need to be common to be PSOC. Bestiality could be compared to, eh, sitting on pink three-legged stools that have blue and white spots and play music. Out of the ordinary, but still — no meaning. Just chairs.

Or compare to other crimes. "Character kills another" — chairs. "Character commits DUI" — chairs.

edited 7th Jan '13 6:34:27 AM by peccantis

Drunk Driver?

So, just as an example, what would not be an example of this trope? Because I'm struggling to see how an incidence of or reference to bestiality could come without an implication of depravity.

edited 7th Jan '13 4:28:38 PM by johnnye

That is a good question. I removed a few wicks because they didn't have any sort of implication that I could see from skimming the context.

For instance, the page image. The other guy looks horrified/sad but nothing says it's because he finds his friend's attraction to Polly repulsive.

And just to give one example-example from the page, "[{{http://oglaf.com/husbandry/1/}} this] Oglaf strip" (SFW) is a full-out aversion of the trope because the other character doesn't blink an eye at the matter.

This trope needs a line of 'In-universe examples only. Bestiality as the clou of a joke might actually fit better under Dead Baby Comedy (in case it hasn't been retooled while I was away) because of the current cultural connotations are so against bestiality.

Compare the situation to Buxom Is Better. That got flooded with examples of "This character is buxom, of course the author meant it to mean she's super attractive". This one is getting a lot of "bestiality is mentioned, of course the author meant that the culprit is super depraved".

For the first one, how the hell else do you explain that expression? What, is the parrot his girlfriend? For the second, the other character's deadpan reaction is Rule of Funny. "I'm a goat fucker" is a primary punchline in itself, not the setup to the last panel.

The very reason bestiality works as Dead Baby Comedy in the first place is that Bestiality Is Depraved. Without that expectation, neither of those jokes would work.

edited 9th Jan '13 2:03:50 AM by johnnye

So perhaps we're better off not listing straight examples at all?

What do you mean by straight examples?

I'm really baffled as to what the perceived problem is with this trope that needs "fixing". Are we so buried under an avalanche of people screwing animals (eww) that simply listing any references to that scenario is unworkable?

I agree, I'm not seeing the problem. Bestiality is never something that "just happens" in a work, and I've never seen it not played for depravity, whether seriously or humorously. Hypothetical issues are hypothetical, and even if someone did manage to come up with an example where it clearly wasn't played for depravity, well, that simply wouldn't be an example. But it would have to be clear that it wasn't. Assuming that it is by default should be fine. The non-depravity version is probably Too Rare To Trope if it exists at all.

Note that the old name makes it basically a sure thing that none of the existing examples lack the depravity element in any case.

The trope's renamed, the wicks are fixed; I think this one can be called done.