The Watering-Down of YA Lit (Development)

Okay, due to a good amount of demand in the Writer's Block Daily thread, I'm setting this up.

Basically, the opinion of Young Adult Literature in Writer's Block isn't high. There's the opinion that a lot of it, especially in the mainstream, is water-downed, along with trends degrading the demographic as a whole.

While YA is still my preferred demographic of choice, I have been wondering about some of these issues.

So in order to explore these issues, I'm going to write a blog series for my blog on YA, and its flaws.

I'm about to get off, but I did a little brainstorming. Here's a list of topics I want to brush on:

• Paranormal Romances, Dystopian Romances, and Trends.
• The Mainstream, Middle-Grade, and Everything Else
• New Adult
• Swearing, Violence, and Sex
• Thematic Content
• The Best Friend, the Stranger, and Love Triangles
• Twilight, Daniel X, and Escapism
• Hollywood High and the Loner Protagonist
• "Strong Female Protagonist"
• The Redeeming Qualities

Note that this isn't a final list. I might add onto this, tweak the topics, or split some off to be separate from the series. Unity is important.

In order to increase the effectiveness of this series, I might have to do some research within these forums, and other parts of the Internet. For the former, I would like permission to take some quotes. A wide range of opinions is always great.

And if you find some great resources out in the wild, wild web, feel free to link them!

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This thread is also about general YA. Feel free to have an open discussion, as there are plenty of bases to cover.

edited 7th May '12 9:34:38 PM by chihuahua0

Alright, I'm going to crack open the first topic as that's where my first major writing project started.

Paranormal romance, I should first note that not all paranormal romance is YA and there is a ton of paranormal romance aimed just at adults.

Second is the unfortunately common idea that romance is either filler or automatically bad. More unfortunate is how often this idea is true, I've been around romance writers enough to know what is typically beaten away with large sticks in most genres is highly praised in romance circles. Dead horse tropes, plot lines and character types will be played straight and anyone who deviates from this path will receive scorn and ridicule in these writing/reading circles. Exception exist but they are sadly rare as the standard for what is good in non-romance fiction is not always the same as what is considered good in romance fiction. This is the reason why Twilight still receives high praise in romance circles.

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After I discovered this a while back, I've been a little freaked out. I posted a rant about it on my blog, and it has been reproduced below in a more rational form. Still, it probably sounds a little ranty. If you find any of the wording or opinions expressed too ranty to be taken seriously, I will be happy to smooth things out.

You can pin it down on the agent's personal taste, but the book did sell (maybe the manuscript itself was amazing), and the whole thing sounds vaguely familiar, like it's been already done on the back covers of books I've put down at Barnes and Noble.

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This is yahighway.com, a site which I've never really browsed. I only know about it because it keeps winding up on the Article Dump in Writer's Block in TV Tropes. I decided to take a look at it today and get a feel of what it's about to try to nail down the target audience of Clockwork Roses (which I've been struggling with for a while.) The "Agents and Editors" header caught my eye and I clicked and found this.

I read the query letter and thought that this book would be a really hard sell for me. This can either be done very well or very bad.

And then the agent starts gushing about the highlighted sections (not the first two, I get those) and I was kind of... in despair.

Okay. Good potential for character development. Character development is cool! I love character development.

Wait what.

This is a red flashing light. Give me one good reason why this isn't going to turn into Twilight or almost every other supernatural forbidden romance story everyone wants to write. One good reason.

Yes. Very compelling. Keep proving that you have the potential to do this better than Twilight.

Okay, that does it.

The reason why I can't stand YA literature anymore is because it's so formulaic. There are only two or three different plotlines, like carboard cutout Christmas trees that authors hang ornaments on until they can call them their own*

. In this case, the ornaments the author chooses to showcase in her query letter are the types of supernatural creatures the characters are and the exact punishment for them being together.

Of course, execution is everything, but this query letter would not be able to convince me to pick up that 90k word manuscript. True, you can't convey as much in a query letter as you might like, but tough shit. You have to do better than this. Why not showcase things that aren't superficial, like character development?

I guess that's it. The publishing industry isn't interested in good content. It just wants to sell. It's old news, but this is just some more sad proof.

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So, here's my question: is this kind of thing very common? Is it beginning to die?

edited 8th May '12 6:49:03 AM by SnowyFoxes

The last battle's curtains will open on stage!

Maybe my high school librarians just had good taste, but I don't recall YA stuff being all that bad.

An example of what I consider 'YA' fiction - anyone ever read Queen Kat, Carmel and St Jude by Maureen Macarthy? Or any of the other books by the same author?

Be not afraid...

I don't read a lot of YA, but to me, the mention of a romance subplot is an immediate warning sign. Yes, they can be well done, but can't we just once have a story about a character trying to reach their goal without falling in love in the meantime? Plenty of people in real life have interesting experiences or adventures without necessarily meeting their future husband or wife at the same time.

Yes, I know this isn't a problem exclusive to YA fiction, but it does seem more prominent there than in adult novels; almost as if the writer thinks they're YA novel isn't complete until they've stuck in a Dark Troubled Love Interest or a love triangle with the protagonist's best friend. (I'm thinking mainly about speculative fiction, since that's my main area of interest, but I'm sure Slice of Life has plenty of it too.)

I will admit I fall into the swearing routine in my writings. Though I do try and save it for situations where I believe are appropriate for it. Situations such as a car exploding near you, or being chased by a large monster. This also involves the characters, in how much vocabulary you want them to know. Though I should mostly cut back on the swearing.

Remember kids, swears do not equal wit

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I have read a lot of YA fiction that doesn't really seem to fit these descriptions. Authors like Libba Bray and John Green, for example, have very complex and intelligent plots that often feature very non-cliched romances.

On the other hand, I have noticed that a lot of the books that get high praise, and the ones that are pushed most strongly by booksellers, tend to be pretty... Dumb. Maybe I'm just the one odd teenage girl who doesn't want to read another paranormal romance, but as part of the genre's target demographic, I have to say that I'm dissappointed that this is what they think I want to read. Um, I'll probably come back later with more organized thoughts on the matter.

I am going to concur here with what Snowy Foxes and Chocolate Cotton have said, but with a footnote: In fairness, it seems like any attempt to play to a particular demographic tends to yield problems like this, but that YA is especially susceptible due to the sheer buying power of the demographic in question.

To quote the True Artist within me: "Art before money! Yes, you should be able to make money from your art, but when it comes down to the line, do not compromise."

I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.

With me, I believe that you can still write great dialogue and a good story WITHOUT any swearing in stories. But YMMV. :/

Now, to the topic at hand.

Although I'm currently writing a YA story (Scifi/Action/Adventure), I can agree that yes, there are many, many watered down YA stories.

My biggest problem with YA nowadays is the Dystopia genre. Same reasons as Snowy Fox: formulaic. Girl/guy lives in the upperclass or a different fraction. Thinks life in the class/fraction is flawless. Meets a girl/guy in a lower class or a different fraction. Forbidden Love ensues. Turns out that-GASP!-the upperclass/government/other fraction is secretly EVAL! Climax battle, Big Bad of the upperclass dies, happy ending, book ends.

I've seen this too many times to count, and quite frankly, I've grown tried of it, like Deceased Parents Are the Best. (Which also often turns up in the Dystopia genre).

edited 8th May '12 3:02:48 PM by Masterofchaos

It should be noted that while a lot of the talking points are often done in bad in mainstream YA. Many of the points can be done well and well doesn't always mean the work is highly intelligent. The idea of literature as entrainment is not a new idea, nor a bad one.

I find the idea of teenagers that don't swear semi-often unrealistic. Most teens swear, a lot. Though I agree with you that a good story need not have swearing and teens not swearing can easily be justified within the text.

edited 8th May '12 3:10:36 PM by Vyctorian

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Some scenes however are more jarring without swearing. Could you really believe a war story for instance where an entire platoon of infantry says not a single cuss word after an IED damn near kills them?

There was a video out of Iraq from this very scenario. Two soldiers damn near got a direct hit by an IED (they were unharmed) and they started Cluster F Bombing and this was on live camera. There was a controversy about it surrounding the various news media who edited the cuss words out even though it was plain as day even to a 3 year old what they were saying or would be saying in that exact situation.

That's the kind of avoidance of swearing you should avoid, where it becomes less believable that they would keep their dialogue clean when the event itself is nowhere near.

Slight derail I know, but then again YMMV and mine does vary.

edited 8th May '12 3:11:38 PM by MajorTom

I think YA should have higher intelligence standards. Teenagers are impressionable and don't have as much experience to compare things to and all that.

edited 8th May '12 3:11:07 PM by SnowyFoxes

The last battle's curtains will open on stage!

I have seen plenty of deviations from this formula (IE, some books are from the viewpoint of the lower class), but in general, this applies to many books in the mainstream.

How would you guys play with it? First of all, I have a "dystopian" idea that's more of A Boy and His X, where The Government *

in general isn't corrupt, except for a couple of gray-shade antagonistic figures. The main force is nature, with giant, teethed worms presenting a concept danger to society.

---

Today, my librarian gave me one explanation why dystopians are popular. To paraphrase her: "[Kids] like to read stories where adults screwed things over."

It makes sense. In most dystopian books, the protagonist is involved in bringing down The Government. These kinds of stories can be seen as a warning about today's society, along with a metaphor about the younger generation overthrowing the older generation.

Of course, this theme is sometimes overlooked by said formulaic writing.

edited 8th May '12 3:14:20 PM by chihuahua0

^^ I agree on the bit that YA should stop dumbing down complex concepts. Middle school age is not the age of innocence like 6 year olds. A YA author should not treat their intended audience as if they have the intelligence and learning capacity of someone several years their junior.

edited 8th May '12 3:14:37 PM by MajorTom

How does this count as a deviation from that plotline?

The last battle's curtains will open on stage!

In one case, (Shatter Me), the "higher-class" character is an antagonist and is not the central love interest, not to mention everyone knows they're living in a Crapsack World caused by a corrupt government No facade here.

In that case, Shatter Me handles the plot slightly better, but I found the "love scenes" quite coy, as if the author was afraid of going "there".

Personally, that relates to one of the most important questions we should be asking: "Is it harmful encouraging these kinds of books in the mainstream? Is it just harmless entertainment? Is it better to encourage "deeper" books?"

Because thinking about it, mainstream YA has the standards of some genre fiction, which has their own merit.

There's also another issue: is there a YA ghetto within the genre?

edited 8th May '12 3:20:14 PM by chihuahua0

^ It's possible YA in and of itself is a ghetto of its own creation.

While I do think YA should have higher intelligence standards. I don't think that non-Genius Bonus fiction is bad, or that every book needs a highly intelligent theme or plot line to be good. Also I disagree on the "Teenagers are (more) impressionable" argument as that is same argument used by book banners and book burners to justify not teaching complex work and dark works in school, i.e. banning stuff like Looking For Alaska from being taught in schools, and the Harry Potter books being burned.

edited 8th May '12 3:23:57 PM by Vyctorian

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The closest thing I can think of to a YA ghetto is New Adult. It makes me sad that a new genre has to be busted for protagonists aged 18-24.

It's complete bullshit that even the American Library Association defines Young Adult as having a protagonist between the ages of twelve and eighteen. Defining a genre by the age of the protagonist is a ridiculously shallow thing to do. Wikipedia's definition of being marketed to a certain age group is far more suitable. Kids books aren't always about kids. General fiction, which is usually associated with older readers, isn't always about adults. I've never met anyone that defined children's literature and general fiction by age group. What makes YA different?

^ Well, I think that's why we need to expose them to different things. This is the best time because they're still fairly open to new things and experiences, but are developed enough to understand them.

I also disagree with disagreeing with an argument just because people you disagree with use it for a different reason.

Addendum: It feels weird talking about my own age demographic in the third person.

edited 8th May '12 3:26:49 PM by SnowyFoxes

The last battle's curtains will open on stage!

That is another sad point, young children's and children's stories are about adult characters almost as often as they are about children characters.

Also while you can disagree with my disagreement, I am not apologizing for it not do I think I am wrong or that you are right.

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While I know it's not typically the deepest or most intelligent demographic-publishing area at least Shonen works have the nerve to have their protagonists be past the age of 18 and still have it be aimed at the younger market.

Another point I like to make is that I'd much rather people reading watered down prose then no prose at all. Having a person's favorite books be Twlight and tired paranormal romance is much better then their favorite reading materials being tabloids or just twitter posts.

Edit: People are impressionable period, regardless of age but not to the extent I felt you were implying.

edited 8th May '12 3:53:26 PM by Vyctorian

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Twilight isn't really the best example, with the unhealthy relationship and all that, but I'm sure everyone is tired of hearing about that by now. Twilight should be unpublished not because it has an abusive relationship, but it executes it so badly.

But it's certainly better than reading about Celebrity McMoneybags' fiftieth divorce and how she's holding a party to celebrate this amazing milestone. If you know that both of these things are messed up.

^ I just thought it was a strange reason to dismiss an argument.

edited 8th May '12 3:44:13 PM by SnowyFoxes

The last battle's curtains will open on stage!

It is however one of the shining pinnacles of what's wrong with the YA demographic in literature.

Just like why by the same token American Idol and other Reality TV series are shining pinnacles of what's wrong with prime-time TV aimed more towards adults.

Disregarding Twilight's implications and bad editing, this relates to the conversation Mom and I had in the car.

She said, "It doesn't matter too much if a book is mindless, as long as it's entertaining enough to get kids to read."

Basically, as long as it gets teens to read, it gets teens to read.

There's the whole "reluctant reader" demographic. Basically, there's the thinking that these kinds of kids hate classroom lit material, and books that can be seen as elitist, do one way to get them to read is to give them something entertaining, funny, suspenseful, something that doesn't require pondering about themical elements and symbolism.

Yet again, I heard one author saying he hated books as a kid because they were all sunshine and such before he read The Outsiders. So there's the opposite end.

Thinking about it, I think another flaw of YA is that it seems to exclude boys at times. For example, the romance. Considering romances are mostly aimed for females...

Where are all the male protagonists!?

edited 8th May '12 4:04:34 PM by chihuahua0

On the reluctant reader topic, I think a big issue there is that for some reason a lot of authors seem to think they can't just have their themes be apparent they need to be masked in some needed layer of metaphor or symbolism.

While I do agree both of these are fun to play with in writing and do serve some place in fiction, I don't think they are needed as much as English teachers and some*

authors make them out to be.

The 80's and 90's. Also I don't think a work needs a protagonist of the same gender as the demographic to have appeal. People generally latch onto character who are either like them or they aspire to be like on a deeper non-superficial level. Or just characters they like.

edited 8th May '12 4:17:45 PM by Vyctorian

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I disagree. That kind of mentality is why tabloids sell. It dumbs everything else down by following that train of logic.

Let's put this to example. You grow up reading "mindless" entertainment novels like many found in YA today. As you grow up that becomes your tastes and thus you continue to seek other mindless drivel for shows. Hollywood writers (and other writers) pick up on this because a lot of folks are just like you seeking the same thing so they flood the market with very minor deviations of the same mindless drivel. Soon enough everything catered towards anyone of intellectual capacity has been driven from public view.

If this story seems very familiar allow me to point you to American TV of the last 50 or so years steadily becoming increasingly stupid and loaded with Least Common Denominator stuff. That's what that mentality is going to create with literature as these kids grow up on mindless drivel stories in the YA genre. Especially considering the volumes spoken of why all the greats of literature over the centuries have complexity and depth. Charles Dickens for instance may have written A Christmas Carol for some quick cash but it is anything but LCD and mindless drivel.

edited 8th May '12 4:22:39 PM by MajorTom