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Knight of Lolicon - feedback wanted
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Knight of Lolicon - feedback wanted:

 1 Martello, Sat, 5th May '12 1:48:55 PM from Black River, NY
Hammer of the Pervs
What the fuck is this? I tried to read the English version and it's a bunch of nonsense, but the trope page makes it look pretty awful despite the defensive first paragraph of the description. Who has read the Spanish version and wants to weigh in on it? I'm pretty sure it's pedoshit.

edited 5th May '12 1:49:58 PM by Martello

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.
It... makes just as much sense in Spanish. Which isn't much. It looks like it's some sort of meta fic self-insert where the heroes are jumping from one anime world to another.

It's a narrative mess, honestly. I keep trying to read it but it's giving me a headache.

edited 5th May '12 2:30:31 PM by Mazz

 
Bitter person in the shadows....
Said paragraph compares it with Kodomo No Jikan. This is one Fan Fic TV Tropes is better off without.
"Pancakes. Oh, I blew it." - Joel Hodgson

Nobody better lay a Butterfinger on my 3DS!
Do you think it contains pedo stuff? The description claims it doesn't but I'm hesitant to believe that.

 5 lu 127, Sat, 5th May '12 2:31:34 PM from the Capital of Light Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
I asked somebody from the fanfic subforum to check out the Spanish version.

The narrative looks dumb though.
迷子の足音消えた
代わりに祈りの唄
Azor Ahai
I think the word "pedoshit" may be thrown around too much lately, but in this case, since the world Lolicon is actually in the title, it's probably justified.

I can't really parse the description- guess it's one of those fanfics by a Western person that throws together a bunch of anime stuff.
Hodor
The girl's age appears to be undefined. They called her "niña", "chica", and other such nouns, but in Spanish they can just as easily refer to a child as they could a young woman.

It's not unusual to hear someone refer to their girlfriend as "niña" ("girl" / "child") as a term of endearment even when she's an older teenager. (Clarification: by "older teenager" I mean someone who is in the 17-19 age range.) It's something you're more likely to hear in High School.

The most specific description of the girl's age I can find is "una niña de corta edad, de gran inocencia y belleza infantil" ("a girl of young age, of great innocence and childish beauty").

It looks like mostly typical shonen action, with "save the girl (and sometimes other characters too) whenever she's in danger/can't fight back/she's kidnapped by evil perverted villains" thrown in here and there in-between action scenes and typical Expo Speak and My Kung-Fu Is Stronger Than Yours banter.

edited 5th May '12 2:48:22 PM by Mazz

 
 8 lu 127, Sat, 5th May '12 2:52:27 PM from the Capital of Light Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
The way you describe it is as if somebody used the word Lolicon without really thinking what the hell it means.

Any hints on the age of the main character?

edited 5th May '12 2:52:44 PM by lu127

迷子の足音消えた
代わりに祈りの唄
At least 25.

"Si, soy un chaval normal, lo que nuestra internet llama Pastel de Navidad: 'después del 25 ya no lo quiere nadie'"

("Yes, I'm a normal boy/guy, the kind that our Internet calls Christmas Cake: 'After the 25th, nobody wants it/him'")

EDIT

And right after that:

"¡Eso no es ser viejo, leñe! Pero vivir en casa de tus padres y con dos hermanas locas y una abuela que me consiente demasiado, quizás pensareis: 'si, ya es viejo para eso'. Me gusta mi casa, ¿vale? Estoy a gusto. Salgo muy pocas veces de mi agujero, pero aquella vez seria una que valdría la pena recordar..."

("That's not being old, leñe*! But living at your parent's house and with two crazy sisters and a grandmother that spoils me too much, and you'd think: 'yes, he is too old for that'. I like my home, okay? I'm comfortable [here]. I seldom leave my hole, but that time would be one worth remembering...")

I'm translating it literally. The grammar is odd even by Spanish standards.

Asterisk: I don't know what "leñe" means literally (it's Spain's Spanish), but my dictionary says it denotes disgust or surprise. Maybe something like "dammit"?

EDIT 2:

Looking through the page's history, I found this:

  • Alternative Character Interpretation: The fic runs on the idea that the very first fictional Lolita (Dolores Haze) was a real person that died and became some kind of goddess/overseer of the Toon World, after her soul was cleansed, to represent the Lolicon phenomemon... On the same note, Humbert is bleached into being a hero for supossedly turning his sexual love into the fatherly kind, and shooting the 'villain' who was trying to, you know... make his daughter star a porn film.

That old edit was added by one Flight Master, which appears to be the fanfiction's author as well (the ff dot net author is named "maestrodelvuelo", literally "Master of Flight" or "Flight Master").

I have no idea how that even fits into the story. Mind, I just skimmed through a few chapters, but there's no obvious indication of that backstory in the fanfiction itself. Unless I've missed something, the titles "Goddess of Lolicon" and "Knight of Lolicon" appear to be for all intents and purposes In Name Only.

EDIT 3:

Wait, I found something.

"¡El Caballero de Lolicon existe para defender a las lolis y revivir a la diosa!"

("The Knight of Lolicon exists to defend the lolis and to revive the goddess!")

"Viajamos por las galaxias para reunir energía loli y a los cinco Jenderillos, para enviársela a nuestra diosa, y poder restaurarla a su debido lugar como soberana..."

("We travel through the galaxies to gather loli energy and the five Jenderillos [I have no idea what a "Jenderillo" is], to send it to our goddess, and so restore her to her proper place as sovereign...")

And then one character says "¿Lolicon, eh? Eso quiere decir: 'el complejo mental por el que un adulto se siente atraído hacia una niña de corta edad, a pesar de o incluso por su escaso desarrollo físico'. Puede llegar a tener un carácter... patológico."

("Lolicon, eh? That means: 'the mental complex by which an adult feels attracted to a girl of young age, despite or even because of her scarce physical development'. It can even have a... pathological aspect/nature to it.")

In a less literal translation, what they're saying (and the dialogue of another character right after that further confirms it) is that "lolicon" can be a mental illness, but apparently that is a just perversion of the concept brought about by "evil perverts" and that "true" lolicon isn't like that.

You know what, the more I read, the less I understand what the story is even about and the less I want to think about it.

edit: forgot that pathological is totally a word, whoops

edited 5th May '12 3:35:28 PM by Mazz

 
From what I have discerned, this is less of "pedoshit", and more like a jumbled semi-self-insert meta-adventure into five anime(?)-inspired worlds to revive something, as well as defeat the very powerful alternate-dimension antagonists. It's quite bizarre as it sounds but, I didn't find it inappropriate yet. I think the author kinda misinterpreted the "meaning" of Lolicon when writing the story. Then again, I need more help comprehending the text.

[up] Don't worry, I have your back. Let's try figuring out off there's any inappropriate smut and then decide whether to excise it from the site or not. For all we know, the troper who wrote that comparison could have been on the wrong track entirely. I don't want works which are not "pedoshit" to be excised from the site just because of their title. Still from the looks of it, this is going to be a disorientating journey of a sort.

edited 5th May '12 5:33:53 PM by Delvarian

"Always looking for a good MMORPG with infinite level-caps... Or a great community." A line said by me.
...Oh, okay, I'll read it.

EDIT: Okay, I read the prologue and the first chapter.

The main hero, a 25 year old, has to restore "The Goddess of Loli" to power, and so has to hug (no, it's not an euphemism, it's just hugging) the "lolis" (sort of like Chosen Ones or something like that?) to absorb their "loli" power, which is just some ball of light.

In the process he has to stop the Big Bad.

The first "loli" is Bra from Dragon Ball GT. Her age is a mess (see the trivia at the end of this page: here http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Bulla), so I have no idea what to think there.

Anyway, if the work keeps following this pattern, then there probably isn't any smut or questionable content besides strange "lolicon" jokes and flirting between the hero and the girl whose age is vague.

I'll keep reading.

EDIT: Second chapter: the "loli" he hugs is this one: http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Minerva_%28Masterforce%29

Third chapter: Rin from InuYasha.

If the whole story follows this trend, then it's probably okay as far as porn/pedobait goes. The more risqué aspects of it are the typical shonen jokes that are along the lines of "oh, were you hitting on that girl/woman? *eye wiggle*", "are you... jealous?" and "oh, do you like me? Tee hee *blush* *blush*".

And, you know. The whole inexplicable "goddess/knights of lolicon" premise.

EDIT: Up to Chapter 7.

O-okay. So far it seems that it's a self-insert fantasy where the hero defends the "lolis" (so far they have been young pre-teen girls, but also all the way to teens) from the Big Bad who wants to kidnap them, enslave them and have his way with them or something, and to stop the Goddess of Lolicon, whom the hero has sworn to protect and restore to power.

He also hugs the girls to gain power boosts that keep pushing more and more into God-Mode Sue territory.

Frankly, its biggest sin is reading like a twelve years old's idea of an epic anime fantasy and being in script format.

I'll keep reading just to make sure there isn't anything against the content policy.

EDIT:

There's no porn.

The story is no more risqué than the universes it visits, so you can use those as a measuring stick:

The author idolizes "lolis" to such an odd extent that I can't tell you if it's just a glorification of innocence or if there is a sexual aspect involved, but because there is so much more emphasis on going around having fights/Pokémon battles/Card Duels/what-have-you, it's all incredibly easy to miss.

Or it would be if the main characters would stop going on and on about finding the lolis and the powers they grant and how the character will fight for the Goddess

And oh God I just can't. I can't. I give up. My brain is mush right now. Please, you guys. Have mercy.

[down] It sounds like a Crack Fic, but once you read it, you realize that, despite the slight sense of humor going around that is so typical of this type of anime fanfic, the author is totally playing it straight as if it was an Epic Serious Crossover.

EDIT: I forgot to add, there is a scene where the hero sees the goddess in a vision, with a description where she has the body of a child (in the context of body shapes, saying that someone has the body of a "niña" definitely means a child).

"La figura de la diosa tiene aspecto de una niña... una pequeña rubita y mofletuda, que es la mejor descripción de lo que Mike estaba buscando: 'Una niña de corta edad, de gran inocencia y belleza infantil'."

("The goddess figure has the looks of a child ...a little blonde and with fat cheeks, whom best fits the description that Mike [the hero] was looking for: 'A girl of young age, of great innocence and childish beauty'." )

Chapters later, the main female character (whom unsurprisingly turns out to be the Lolicon Goddess herself) says in one chapter:

"Se supone que la diosa es una 'niña de gran inocencia y belleza infantil', igual que sus súbditas... pero yo soy muy vieja, mi cara es aburrida, mis tetas son muy grandes... ¡no podría ser mas distinta! Es de locos."

("The goddess is supposed to be 'a girl of great innocence and childish beauty', like her subjects... but I'm too old, my face is too boring, my boobs are too big... I couldn't be any more different! It's a crazy idea.")

EDIT EDIT: No, wait, it looks like the Goddess is the main female character's mother??? what. I. what

edited 5th May '12 11:35:26 PM by Mazz

 
 12 Hamburger Time, Sat, 5th May '12 8:34:16 PM from Right behind you
Revenge of the Lemurs
This sounds more like Crack Fic than something that's supposed to be titillating...
Voted to keep. Crack Fic isn't the kind of thing we're cutting.
 14 Komodin, Sat, 5th May '12 8:43:09 PM from Somewhere in Windy Hill Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
The Sonic Wiki Curator
Keep and clean. This appears to be more of a Crack Fic than anything pedobait-ish.
 15 Ultimately Subjective, Sat, 5th May '12 9:08:10 PM from Once, not long ago
Conceptually Frameworked
It sounds insane and I found it inane.

I read the prologue and chapter 1. This is just a bad fanfic based on a couple of anime the author has seen. I'm pretty sure it's relation to lolicon is that the "lolicon philosophy" of powering up by hugging girls is just an attempt to involve characters from anime who fit the bill of "young girl" while ham-fistedly tying this back to Lolita itself.

The "hugging lolis" probably isn't Author Appeal, especially since "Linda" is being set up as a girlfriend, but I could understand it bothering some people, especially when it's part of the little plot this has.

The Knight Of Lolicon page needs cleaning up though. I'd just about completely cut the first two paragraphs, and move the third paragraph to after the current sixth paragraph.

Edit: And it looks like most people have already reached that conclusion while I was busy banging my head on the table.

edited 5th May '12 9:13:17 PM by UltimatelySubjective

"Nullius addictus iurare in verba magistri, quo me cumque rapit tempestas, deferor hospes."
Anyway, if you'd like to know my opinion, it's this:

The fic is clean enough to comply with the letter of the Content Policy, but just skeevy enough to laugh in the face of its spirit.

[up] At least you were too busy banging your head to keep reading!
 
The name alone makes me want to get rid of it, and the fact that it's about "defending lolis" sure makes it seem like it's glorifying pedophilia. Vote to cut.

II
[up] First, I'm fairly certain that they mean "lolis" as in the little girls, not the people who want to do unspeakable things to the little girls. It's just an unfortunate phrase used by someone who doesn't sound like they understand what it even means.

Second, you don't get a vote.
Little-known fact: the four gospels were known in their time as Wedge, Bobby Steve, Red, and Smackdaddy. — ABNDT

Thumped for switching the discussion from the topic to a person. Doesn't take many of this kind of thump to bring a suspension. Stay on the topic, not the people in the discussion.

 
Why the needless hostility? My opinions are just as valid as anyone's.

 21 Martello, Sat, 5th May '12 9:49:07 PM from Black River, NY
Hammer of the Pervs
Don't jump on him because he disagrees with you. His opinion is valid.
"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.
Please tell me why I "don't get to vote". I wasn't aware that I broke any rules or made anyone upset. If I did, I apologize.

II
"Voting" implies that this is a democratic process. It's not. Well...it is...but only via a select few people. Everyone else is just providing input. Saying "It seems like something that should be cut" is more acceptable than "I vote to cut it".

For the record, I'm not upset. I was just getting an impression that you didn't quite understand the process.

edited 5th May '12 9:53:21 PM by BadWolf21

Little-known fact: the four gospels were known in their time as Wedge, Bobby Steve, Red, and Smackdaddy. — ABNDT
 24 Martello, Sat, 5th May '12 9:52:11 PM from Black River, NY
Hammer of the Pervs
[up][up]You're fine. I knew what you meant, and I'm sure the other 5P did too.

edited 5th May '12 9:53:19 PM by Martello

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.
 25 Komodin, Sat, 5th May '12 9:52:51 PM from Somewhere in Windy Hill Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Total posts: 79
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