Planning Tournament Arcs

• Which would fare better if implemented: A 10-question game or a race-to-6 game?
  • The former makes for quick games but has the potential for one hit kills, so to speak.
  • The latter can take a really long time to finish if it takes so long for both sides to get a correct answer in, but makes for incredible comebacks from say, down 0-5.
• I'm implementing an NBA-style playoff tournament for every arc, most notably the Nationals Arc. Now, I'm wary of placing the hero team as a high seed because Underdogs Never Lose. At least the School Quiz Tournament Arc places the hero team as a 6 seed. However, once the District Arc picks up, placing the hero team as a low seed doesn't make sense because they have been Regional powerhouses for quite a while.
  • When the hero team does make it to the Nationals, I'm wary of placing them as a low seed despite the fact that Underdogs Never Lose. The southern part of the country where the hero team belongs to is similar to the NBA's Western Conference, a very competitive area with many strong teams. I can't place them as a low seed because I can't think of a strong opponent for the hero team in the first round, not to mention it could make the road to the championship MUCH harder than intended.

Now you might say, "Just make the matchups, seeds don't really matter." However, I'm quite OC about it, as each tournament arc has an elimination round which serves only to determine seeds non-randomly. You might as well wonder why sometimes the most powerful teams in random-seeded tournaments fight each other in the first round.

tl;dr version:

• 10 questions or race to 6, tiebreaker to 7?
• Hero team as high seed or low seed?

edited 1st May '12 7:01:51 PM by judasmartel

I don't really see what the point is in determining matchups in an at all meaningful manner. The writer of Negima simply decided who would be in the event and rolled dice. Everything still ended up being well-written and nobody noticed until an assistant revealed it in one of the volume compilations.

I guess you're right, I'll just write tourney arcs as they are, but like I said, I'm quite OC about this, and the Underdogs Never Lose trope gets old after a while. So, yeah, I HATE rolling dice on this.

Of course, I'm not going to reveal the seeds until later, but I'm seeking help exactly for this purpose. I'm wary about placing the hero team as a high seed in the later arcs but I'm wary about placing them as low seeds, either.

That said, my purpose of creating a more meaningful manner of planning tournament arcs is to specifically avoid tournament arc tropes that annoy me a lot, such as random seeding and unfair disadvantage to the hero team. However, I don't want to give the hero team that much of an advantage, either.

edited 1st May '12 7:49:42 PM by judasmartel

I don't know who he is, or really what that is, but that's honestly pretty cool. I've always sort of wanted to do something like that myself.

His wife demanded hiatus, by the way.

So, what about it? I'm not seeding any team in my story just for the heck of it. It's in order to organize the arcs according to what kind of team would the hero team face in each round.

• 10 questions or race-to-6?
• Hero team as a high seed or a low seed?

edited 3rd May '12 1:07:23 AM by judasmartel

Personally, I wouldn't bother with a race to 6 style game; Down to the Last Play and Underdogs Never Lose are pet peeve trope of mine, depending on how well theyre done, so the "exciting comeback" doesn't really make a convincing advantage for the amount of time it would take (especially in a full 11 rounds situation).

A flat 10 rounds makes things flow better with a more logical progression, has less deus ex machina elements to it, while still leaving room for drama at the "point of no return" (losing 5 questions straight isn't a good position to be in, but you know that the game hinges on the next one, and comebacks are still possible).

Thanks for answering the first question. I guess the 10-question game works better, especially for that one scenario where the game comes down to one final question should neither team was able to answer correctly all the other 9 or 10 questions.

The second question: See, I'm wary about giving them increasing seeds as the story progresses but I'm just as wary about giving them decreasing seeds.

For starters, I gave the hero team the 6-seed in the School Quiz Arc, the 3-seed in the District Quiz Arc, and the 2-seed in the Regional Quiz Arc.

I'm not sure whether to give the 2 or 3 seed to the hero team in the Division Arc. I'm planning to write two sides of the girls-versus-boys match, i.e., they face both all-boys and all-girls teams, to which they respond by fielding all-girls and all-boys teams, respectively.

Since the hero team has 5 girls and 7 boys, expect the hero girls to deal a Curb-Stomp Battle on the opposing all-boys team. But when the heroes face the all-girls team, though, they had a tough time, and so their match went to full 5 games.

This gives rise to Unfortunate Implications that girls are innately more intellectual than guys.

I have already determined the 1-seeds for each arc except the National Arc, where I haven't decided which Regional team gets the 1-seed in the South. The Opposing Sports Team of course, is the 1-seed in the North.

You see, I plan the hero team's first opponent in the Nationals to be an ethnic team (Muslims in an 85% Catholic country), but I'm wary about giving Unfortunate Implications by giving them a low seed, but I'm also wary about giving them a high seed, either.

So which is better: Hero team as a high seed or a low seed?

edited 4th May '12 2:00:13 AM by judasmartel

In a single-elimination tournament following one group (the protagonists) I don't think seeds should matter- Rule of Drama means the heros MUST have a realistic chance to lose any given match, otherwise there'd be no point to spending plot time on that match.

Seed placement, I think, doesn't really make much difference in the long run; upsets can always occur, so it only serves to build up hype for particular teams.

If you're that worried about it I'd look at it from a plot perspective- which teams have the most hype in story? Do you want The Worf Effect to be present? Do underdogs have any better chances of winning?

And as for Unfotunate implications, I'd think portraying any given team as competent is more important than their seed number. As long as the match is close and both teams play fair, there's no reason for unfortunate implications to be present- A tournament is already the best players available, so while the difference between seeds 1 and 8 isn't negligible in terms of record, I don't think it carries the kind of plot weight and veiled meanings you're worried about.

Note that I'm thinking like a writer not a sports fan though

edited 4th May '12 12:15:54 PM by CleverPun

In general, the hero team is the most hyped in-story up to the Regionals Arc. Nationals Arc, not so much when it's their first time to get there in 25 years. The hype goes to the Opposing Sports Team, when they're supposed to win their 10th straight championship before the heroes came along (of course, somebody is behind it)

In reality though, I'll have to post my story first and see which teams will become Ensemble Dark Horse (I hope no opposing team gets the Hyotei treatment, I hated that one), and which ones will become Brother Chuck or even The Scrappy.

The Worf Effect, hmm... I think I'll use it in a way that it won't affect the storyline in general. I think the all-boys hero team got it so bad in the Divisionals Arc, but they still managed to pull off a narrow win anyway.

I agree that the best solution to this is to create the matchups first, then reveal the seeds later, unless of course the plot requires that I show the aggregate scores of each team in the elimination round (written individual test, team score is the sum of the 3 highest scores of each team).

edited 4th May '12 7:34:34 PM by judasmartel