The Place for Purging Porn and Pedo-Pandering (AKA P5 flag evaluations)

Including the Special Efforts cleanup thread, too?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

@Septimus: We need to apply a standard that is not vulnerable to lots of rules lawyering. Just saying "looks young" is too subjective.

We're currently operating from the presumption that if it can be read/shown in high school, broadcast on prime-time TV, shown in a mainstream theater, or bought without shrinkwrap in a mainstream bookstore *

, it's fine for TV Tropes. That should cut out the quibbling over Romeo And Juliet or Sailor Moon.

On the opposite end, we have clear-cut cases where it's just plain porn/guro/shock crap, or pedo-pandering. Those can go, no questions asked.

The remainder is where the 5P comes in, and will apply what we all expect will be rational standards of judgement. Our guidelines on the matter say 16-and-under sex is one of those very strong indicators that a work page will be cut, but obviously that has to be subject to a fair bit of leeway or we come back to Romeo And Juliet.

edited 25th Apr '12 9:23:01 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Gorn as in "graphic, lovingly depicted violence" (which I thought wasn't an issue), or "violent pornography"?

Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.

I'm using it in the "violent pornography" sense. Torture porn and the like. Edited my post.

edited 25th Apr '12 9:14:07 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Torture Porn doesn't actually have anything to do with sex. Torture Porn is more like Food Porn or Scenery Porn for torture.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

OK, but in the wild both "gorn" and "torture porn" are usually used for "lovingly depicted violence", not "violent pornography". I suggest being clearer to prevent further panic and hysteria. :)

edited 25th Apr '12 10:00:57 AM by lebrel

Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.

Ugh. People being dismembered or tortured as part of a fetish. I know specificity is needed here, but it's hard for me to even write, much less look at.

Okay, so it has an "official" term. Good enough.

edited 25th Apr '12 9:19:45 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Eroguro would be the term, I think.

That is probably left to the 5P to determine, whether is a Fetish-like violence or just "extreme violence"

Also, I think that several issues could be remedied by dropping the age rule to 15 or 14.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Huh, and it's a Japanese word. Who would have thought?

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.

No no no! Ero-guro is a form of surealism with lurid or sensational elements, influential in early 20th century Japanese detective and horror fiction. Please don't misuse it any more than people already do.

Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.

*off-topic for the current discussion, but I don't know where else to ask*

Where is the link to the tool that had a list of all "flagged" pages (well, mostly ones behind the curtain), on which the 5P could vote and decide on a course of action for everyone to see and such? I know the link came up in one of the threads here a few days ago, but I've no idea where to start looking. And of course, the page may have been hidden from non-5P-ers since I saw it.

That was the amazing part. Things just keep going.

The term guro on its own is usually used for violent porn - it used to be a redirect (or was proposed as a redirect, I can't quite remember) to Gorn. It refers to violent pornography like United States Angels Corps.

edited 25th Apr '12 9:35:00 AM by TheOneWhoTropes

Keeper of The Celestial Flame

Ah, yes, that. That's the source of confusion. Ero-guro =/= guro.

Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.

Right, so pure porn/guro/shock is out. The 5P can look it over, of course, but it's unlikely to be salvageable.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Before anyone mentions Saw, this is made to catch works like Agony In Pink rather than mainstream slasher horror, or whatever that genre is called.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

@137 Telecontar: The flagged-list dealie is here.

Calling someone a pedant is an automatic Insult Backfire. Real pedants will be flattered.

Indeed. Slasher horror is shown in mainstream theaters/TV, so it's unlikely to be cut, even if it gets an R rating. Also, R-rated material is not going to be cut just because it shows naked people or blood. The point is to establish a rational threshold whereby we won't consider removing stuff that preexisting Moral Guardians have deemed acceptable.

Beyond that point is where 5P comes in. But we are not having them review every work page on the entire wiki; that would be idiotic.

edited 25th Apr '12 10:01:37 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

It may be worth it to write Useful Notes pages defining genre terms like ecchi, guro, ero-guro, hentai, etc. I see them brought up a lot, and there have been several claims that they're often misused or misconstrued by non-Japanese speakers.

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.

Take 'em to YKTTW. We can talk about policy implications later on.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Anime Fan Speak it exists already relatively disused though it's missing a lot of stuff and it doesn't cover the obscure or really creepy stuff that only get used in small circles.

@ The whole bookstore thing load off my mind there.

edited 25th Apr '12 10:20:57 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

@Arcades - we could also just use English, since everyone here speaks it, and almost nobody speaks Japanese.

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.

I speak Japanese

But really, the issue isn't which language we use, since it ends up in quibbling either way. Paedoshit, porn, perverse etc. have been debated to death and the only conclusion we've reached is "we'll know it when we see it".

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer

I think most of us believe that some of those terms are more gratuitous than others.

The words above are to be read as if they are narrated by Morgan Freeman.

Well, since we're looking at works that describe themselves as "ecchi" or "hentai", knowing the difference would be useful.

From what I can tell, "ecchi" is apparently sexually titillating, usually played for comedy, but not outright pornographic. "Hentai", on the other hand, is pornographic.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.