The Place for Purging Porn and Pedo-Pandering (AKA P5 flag evaluations)

It's also possible that whoever re-flagged it wasn't aware that it had been already reviewed.

I'm back. Wish I could've helped, but the post I made on Yomeiro Choice specifically asked for a second independent observer, so... sorry, tgoodrich, you were out of luck on that one. Looks like I missed all the "fun".

OK, so what's the story on Sensitive Pornograph? I haven't seen or read the actual manga but the one shot anime OVA is straight up uncensored porn.... Why hasn't this one been flagged? Or is the page not descriptive enough to get any attention?

It's already flagged, mon. We just haven't got to it yet.

Anyway, the OVA's just straight up smut? Okay, cool. However, since the page is about the manga, I'd rather wait until we get some more dirt on it before I make a decision for it.

Cool. Yes, the OVA is porn and can't be argued. It's actually why i'm kind of afraid to check out the manga myself... I'm big BL fan but I actually don't care for porn (really). Which is why I've been advocating for some series on here that were flagged or deleted when they aren't actually porn although a bit ecchi. This series's OVA was pretty damn hardcore.

edited 16th Jun '12 9:19:47 AM by VeritasVierge

It is somewhat common for the OVA to be much more pornographic than the original series itself, I believe. Specially the if the original work is not all the popular, I think.

Not that I am defending the manga. Never read it. Just giving a bit of context.

Re the Sensitive Pornograph manga; it's 6 short stories, either romances or relationship melodramas, all but one of which includes a (usually fairly explicit) sex scene. It's available in English from DMP's 801 imprint, 18+ rating. It's not solid sex but it is pretty smutty; the author tries for psychological issues but the writing isn't very strong, which makes the sex more of the selling point. I'd call it kind of borderline; maybe someone else can offer an opinion?

The OVA takes two of the stories and plays them for pure porn. For some reason the Wikipedia page is only about the OVA.

Re: Sensitive Pornograph:

Ask, and ye shall receive, Lebrel.

Chapter 1: Three fairly explicit sex scenes. Writing is overly melodramatic, but bear in mind I have a low melodrama tolerance. To its credit, both participants are adults and genitals are censored.

Chapter 2: No sex to be found, just bad writing. Not that P5 can do anything about that without blatant abuse of power.

Chapter 3: Fairly explicit sex scene lasting several pages, as well as a much shorter erotic dream.

Chapter 4: Opens with a rather explicit photograph (in-universe, not a real one) of two men having sex. Censor mosaic is used on genitals. Two explicit sex scenes. Most explicit chapter yet

Chapter 5: All explicit sex, no plot worth mentioning.

Chapter 6: Opens with explicit sex. Note to all writers: opening with a sex scene or fanservice leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Don't do it. Less explicit than previous two, but still explicit.

Verdict: Cutlist

Pro:

• All sex is obviously between adults
• One chapter entirely clean
• Youngest characters are high school students; their story is the clean chapter

Con:

• Explicit sex in 5/6 chapters, including one chapter in which the majority of it is explicit sex
• Writing is weak leading me to believe the sex is the selling point

edited 15th Jun '12 9:49:08 AM by tdgoodrich1

Okay, seeing as we're not talking about anything in particular here I will use my awesome post links powers to bring this review of My Girlfriend Is The President up since it seems like it's an obvious thing to pass without need for extensive argument.

My Girlfriend Is The President

• When are the sex scenes located?: They begin after you've cleared the general route, so after perhaps half of the story until the ending you'll be seeing sex scenes occasionally.
  • Are they spread out over the game?: They're in the latter half of the story.
    • How much gameplay is there between sex scenes?: Before the first scene there's a pretty decent amount of reading to be done. In between scenes there's still a fair amount of reading to be done, though there are somewhat more scenes than average.
  • Are they only at the endings?: Nope
    • How hard do you have to work to get an ending?: Not very. The story has very few choices and works in a priority order, so if you hit the trigger to go onto a certain route, you won't have to deal with any more choices. However, it requires a fairly large amount of reading: VNDB puts it at medium length 10-30 hours of reading and I'd personally say it's at the upper end of that.
    • Are they in every ending? Every good ending?: Yes
• Are the sex scenes optional via a choice in the menu?: No
• Would the story make sense without them with minimal or no rewriting?: Yes
• Are the scenes made up of stills, or are they animated?: Stills
• How explicit are the sex scenes?: Standard stuff. There's pixellation during the sex scenes. No rape. One character is referred to as though she's underaged looking, but during actual sex scenes she does not appear to be prepubescent. Here is a SFW picture.◊

Okay, now personally, I don't think anything needs to be done with this at all. It's not porn and it's not pedo pandering since the only genuinely underaged looking characters don't have sex scenes. People read this because it's absurd: The story is about aliens accidentally killing the Prime Minister of Japan and brainwashing the planet into thinking a teenaged girl is the president of Japan while building the White House for her to live in. It's not about sex.

This is a bit of an aside, but it's fairly important to understand that applying an age standard doesn't simply play an arbitrary role in assigning categories or labels — it has an eminently practical one in the real world as well. You see, relative cultural AOC is commonly cited as an excuse or justification by pedophiles (primarily from Western countries) that engage in sex tourism in Asia. Accordingly, and appropriately, the US, Canada, and several countries in Europe DO charge its citizens with the relevant statutory rape clauses for engaging in sex tourism that may otherwise have been considered "legal" in the destination countries. Similar reasoning applies to depiction of individuals in media, though things are significantly more complex.

The point is that using a universal AOC has valid practical considerations, and is not just some arbitrary regulation.

edited 16th Jun '12 4:31:36 PM by ForlornDreamer

OK, but we're talking about what is pedo in cartoons, not what some sickos are doing in (insert country here)

What's the procedure on dealing with rogue cuts? Someone has added Natsuiro Kiseki to the Cut List despite no one on P5 having voted one way or the other.

edited 15th Jun '12 8:25:34 PM by tdgoodrich1

Post it here and hope that the cut masters decline the request.

I don't think there is a formal procedure for this.

I went ahead and added an advisory to the discussion page for the cutmasters. Hopefully they will take note.

Is it too late to discuss Umetzu's Kite? It's more or less in the same boat as his Mezzo Forte. The sex can be a little gratuitous, but the times where it's explicit it's there to illustrate how depraved the character is.

... And there's a bleached underpants version too!!

Edit: Wait, I see that the "Pages Cut" has been updated, seems to have been appealed earlier.

edited 16th Jun '12 1:54:35 AM by SpecialCookies

If Kite has a Bleached Underpants version, I'll vote to restore. As long as it doesn't fall under pedo-pandering, of course.

What he said applies to me, too.

well I know of three cuts, one is uncut, one removes flashbacks to Sawa as a child being raped, and one removes all of the sex entirely not a big lose as the sex was added because of executive meddling and adds nothing to the plot.

We might as well keep the one with no sex.

Yes Shadis is right, there's a Bleached Underpants version that removes the sex stuff. The plot suffers not at all.

Cool, so let's roll with that.

Re: Green Green (that's the title? Seriously?)

Preliminary Report:

• LNs demographic is "male" Disclaimer
  English Wikipedia's veracity with regard to demographics has been disputed
  Other LNs Published under Same Label
  Haganai, The Sacred Blacksmith, Rah Xephon
• Anime licensed in US by Media Blasters
• Based on H-game with clean PS 2 port

Update the first: Ugh, another ecchi harem series. OP has nudity with various censorship techniques (mostly Peek-A-Boo). Also, hate Hate HATE the character designs, not that P5 cares.

Update the second: Just the typical trashy ecchi series stuff (i.e. Panty Shots, Gainaxing, Male Gaze)

Update the third: More trashy ecchi crap but nothing cutworthy.

Thanks. Noted.

edited 16th Jun '12 9:36:03 AM by tdgoodrich1

FYI: According to the English Wikipedia, Green Green was based on a visual novel with a Bleached Underpants PS 2 version.

Re: Green Green ep. 6

More of the same. It's terrible, but not cutworthy.

Update the first: some naked breasts on high-school aged girls, but that's as far as it goes. Utter shit, but wiki-safe still.

Re: Green Green ep. 13

Dafuq? Onscreen explicit sex?

Update the first: Oh, this is the OVA. Never mind.

Verdict: Restrict to clean versions

I'm not entirely certain that there is a word in the English language quite foul enough to describe the feelings of loathing I feel towards this series. Don't know exactly what about it rubbed me the wrong way, but something did. That said, if we cut off all references to the pornographic versions of the work (OVA included) it can probably stick around.

edited 16th Jun '12 10:35:21 AM by tdgoodrich1

Odd question. Should we do anything about Ho Yay pages for shows that deal primarily with children/pre-teens? Because the Ed Edd N Eddy Ho Yay page kind of scares me, even though I know some of the listings on it are legit (having seen every episode of the show).

Ho Yay is not always explicitly sexual or paedo-stuff, nor are we singling out homosexuality.

Short: Remove anything that violates No Lewdness No Prudishness.

edited 16th Jun '12 2:33:08 PM by SeptimusHeap